An average middle reliever today would just **** up any "great" hitter from the early 1900's.

Eat a dick, you pedantic fart.

And, realistically, we do know that turn of the century players wouldn’t stand a chance in today’s game.

Look at video of Ruth’s swing. Then watch one of a million clips of the ridiculous things pitchers are doing today. Ruth would **** his pants.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/21/2018 6:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 12/21/2018 6:05:00 PM (view original):
how is that a "fact"? Can you prove it?

I mean, is that really up for debate? It's a different game today.

Babe Ruth probably doesn't make a roster in 2018.

This is so ******* awesome, you have no idea.

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/21/2018 5:07:00 PM (view original):
But my top elite tier would be

1A. Walter Johnson
1B. Pedro Martinez
3. Christy Mathewson
4. Addie Joss


Then you get to Maddux, Koufax, Kershaw, Randy, Young, Walsh.

that would round out my top guys, not in that order (mostly cuz I don’t have the time to rank them). But that would be my elite tier, sorry I guess I’m not a small ball type of guy

I'd rank Joss in the next tier outside the top 10, along w/ guys like Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Steve Carlton and Whitey Ford (I know everyone thinks Randy should be higher). Though it may be unfair to penalize Joss more than Koufax for a short career, Koufax was the dominant pitcher of his era. Pedro was the dominant pitcher in baseball from 1999-2001. Gibson was dominant in the late 60's, and Maddux was dominant in the mid 90's. Joss always pitched in the shadow of Walter Johnson & Christy Mathewson. Joss neither dominated his era nor had an enduring body of work, though he's one of the best 15 pitchers of all time, and that's not shabby.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/21/2018 7:26:00 PM (view original):
And, realistically, we do know that turn of the century players wouldn’t stand a chance in today’s game.

Look at video of Ruth’s swing. Then watch one of a million clips of the ridiculous things pitchers are doing today. Ruth would **** his pants.

Maybe if you teleported them in w/ their Old School training regimens, coaching, batting swings, and competitive history. But that's like saying the great Roman legions would be crushed by a well armed street gang today. The Babe was an amazing natural athlete -- give him today's managers, hitting instructors, diet, conditioning programs, player development and level of competition growing up and I think he'd do OK.

Y’all are treating these old-timers like they’re idiot Neanderthals or something. They’re athletes capable of learning and adjusting to today’s game. There’s no way you can convince me Ty Cobb wouldn’t be a perennial all-star in today’s game.

But if you do think that way, does it apply to all modern hitters too? Are Miggy, Pujols, and Man-Ram the best RH hitters of all time over Hornsby, Lajoie, and Delahanty? I mean, with the whole level of competition, scouting, and every pitchers throwing 95+ nowadays...

Posted by wylie715 on 12/21/2018 4:11:00 PM (view original):
at what? Not pitching.

I'm sure he was better at something. He was at least better at being tall.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/21/2018 5:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/21/2018 4:57:00 PM (view original):
Walter Johnson and Pedro Martinez are 1A and 1B best pitchers of all time.

But if we talking about the elite tier, I’m curious where y’all have Addie Joss. Lowest WHIP in history.

If y'all give Koufax’s short career a pass for arthritis, the same should be applied to Joss for tuberculosis.

I'd take Clemens over Pedro. I might put Clemens at 1 all time, considering the fact that modern players are just so much better than turn of the century guys.

Really? Pedro has Clemens in WHIP, ERA+, OAV, BB/9, K/9, and had a more dominant stretch than him.

Batters batted .214/.276/.337 off Pedro vs .229/.294/.341 off Clemens

The only things Clemens has on Pedro is wins (remember they’re useless), HR/9 (.8 to .7 Clemens) and steroids taken.

Therefore I think Pedro is better than Clemens.

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/21/2018 11:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/21/2018 5:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/21/2018 4:57:00 PM (view original):
Walter Johnson and Pedro Martinez are 1A and 1B best pitchers of all time.

But if we talking about the elite tier, I’m curious where y’all have Addie Joss. Lowest WHIP in history.

If y'all give Koufax’s short career a pass for arthritis, the same should be applied to Joss for tuberculosis.

I'd take Clemens over Pedro. I might put Clemens at 1 all time, considering the fact that modern players are just so much better than turn of the century guys.

Really? Pedro has Clemens in WHIP, ERA+, OAV, BB/9, K/9, and had a more dominant stretch than him.

Batters batted .214/.276/.337 off Pedro vs .229/.294/.341 off Clemens

The only things Clemens has on Pedro is wins (remember they’re useless), HR/9 (.8 to .7 Clemens) and steroids taken.

Therefore I think Pedro is better than Clemens.

Clemens threw almost twice as many innings as Pedro. That matters a lot.

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/21/2018 10:24:00 PM (view original):
Y’all are treating these old-timers like they’re idiot Neanderthals or something. They’re athletes capable of learning and adjusting to today’s game. There’s no way you can convince me Ty Cobb wouldn’t be a perennial all-star in today’s game.

But if you do think that way, does it apply to all modern hitters too? Are Miggy, Pujols, and Man-Ram the best RH hitters of all time over Hornsby, Lajoie, and Delahanty? I mean, with the whole level of competition, scouting, and every pitchers throwing 95+ nowadays...

I don’t think they were neanderthals but I do think that, like in any major sport, old timers wouldn’t be able to compete in today’s game.

I think greats of the 1950’s and 1960’s would have a hard time. Guys from the turn of the century would be so utterly overmatched that they wouldn’t stand a chance. It’s a completely different game.

Can you imagine how dominant guys like Johnson and Mathewson would be if they knew they'd only be asked to throw 6 or 7 innings every 5th game?

Pedro has WHIP, ERA+, OAV, K/9, BB/9, and a more dominant stretch on Clemens.

BL: But Innings...

Posted by bad_luck on 12/22/2018 11:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/21/2018 10:24:00 PM (view original):
Y’all are treating these old-timers like they’re idiot Neanderthals or something. They’re athletes capable of learning and adjusting to today’s game. There’s no way you can convince me Ty Cobb wouldn’t be a perennial all-star in today’s game.

But if you do think that way, does it apply to all modern hitters too? Are Miggy, Pujols, and Man-Ram the best RH hitters of all time over Hornsby, Lajoie, and Delahanty? I mean, with the whole level of competition, scouting, and every pitchers throwing 95+ nowadays...

I don’t think they were neanderthals but I do think that, like in any major sport, old timers wouldn’t be able to compete in today’s game.

I think greats of the 1950’s and 1960’s would have a hard time. Guys from the turn of the century would be so utterly overmatched that they wouldn’t stand a chance. It’s a completely different game.

So Miggy, Pujols, and Man-Ram are the best RH hitters of all time. Better than Hornsby, Delahanty, Lajoie, Mays, Aaron, Robinson, etc.

In fact, Chipper Jones and Lance Berkman are better than Mickey Mantle.

Cuz you know, they’d struggle in today’s game, and Jones and Berkman would dominate all those 50s and 60s pitchers