Posted by tecwrg on 12/23/2018 2:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2018 9:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/23/2018 2:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/22/2018 2:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/22/2018 1:48:00 PM (view original):
Pedro has WHIP, ERA+, OAV, K/9, BB/9, and a more dominant stretch on Clemens.

BL: But Innings...

So is Craig Kimbrel better than Pedro? He has a better WHIP, ERA+, K/9 etc.

Different positions. Unrelatable.

Same position: pitcher.

Starters and relievers can be judged by the same criteria?

In reality, they are. People know, either consciously or subconsciously, that starters are more valuable than relievers because they throw more innings. But the things we use to measure them—ERA, K/9, WHIP, etc., are the same.

Clemens’ career was more valuable than Pedro’s because he threw 2000+ more innings and was almost as effective.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2018 3:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 12/23/2018 2:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2018 9:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/23/2018 2:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/22/2018 2:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/22/2018 1:48:00 PM (view original):
Pedro has WHIP, ERA+, OAV, K/9, BB/9, and a more dominant stretch on Clemens.

BL: But Innings...

So is Craig Kimbrel better than Pedro? He has a better WHIP, ERA+, K/9 etc.

Different positions. Unrelatable.

Same position: pitcher.

Starters and relievers can be judged by the same criteria?

In reality, they are. People know, either consciously or subconsciously, that starters are more valuable than relievers because they throw more innings. But the things we use to measure them—ERA, K/9, WHIP, etc., are the same.

Clemens’ career was more valuable than Pedro’s because he threw 2000+ more innings and was almost as effective.

Maybe. If you wanna use career WAR, then sure. But Pedro was the better pitcher, with better stats, and a higher peak, and I’d rather take him.

Just hanging around collecting accolades (and felony charges) doesn’t necessarily mean he should top Pedro.

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/24/2018 1:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2018 3:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 12/23/2018 2:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2018 9:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/23/2018 2:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/22/2018 2:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/22/2018 1:48:00 PM (view original):
Pedro has WHIP, ERA+, OAV, K/9, BB/9, and a more dominant stretch on Clemens.

BL: But Innings...

So is Craig Kimbrel better than Pedro? He has a better WHIP, ERA+, K/9 etc.

Different positions. Unrelatable.

Same position: pitcher.

Starters and relievers can be judged by the same criteria?

In reality, they are. People know, either consciously or subconsciously, that starters are more valuable than relievers because they throw more innings. But the things we use to measure them—ERA, K/9, WHIP, etc., are the same.

Clemens’ career was more valuable than Pedro’s because he threw 2000+ more innings and was almost as effective.

Maybe. If you wanna use career WAR, then sure. But Pedro was the better pitcher, with better stats, and a higher peak, and I’d rather take him.

Just hanging around collecting accolades (and felony charges) doesn’t necessarily mean he should top Pedro.

If Pedro had hung around for 10 more 200 IP seasons, what do you think his career stats would look like? I think they’d be a lot worse than Clemens. It’s not easy to just “hang around” for 5000 innings and maintain a 143 ERA+.

I think he could’ve done it if he had Clemen’s trainer ;)

I think it’s safe to assume that Pedro was taking advantage of just as many training techniques as everyone else in the late 90’s/early 2000’s.

Minus the roids of course

Why “of course?”

Why not?

I’m comfortable assuming everyone from the early 90’s to when testing was implemented was using steroids.

as long as you're comfortable

Posted by bad_luck on 12/24/2018 6:09:00 PM (view original):
I’m comfortable assuming everyone from the early 90’s to when testing was implemented was using steroids.

David Eckstein was the worst one about it!

Don't forget that Maddux was throwing 94-96 in his late thirties.

Posted by strikeout26 on 12/24/2018 7:56:00 PM (view original):
Don't forget that Maddux was throwing 94-96 in his late thirties.

94-96 what? Maddux never had that kind of heat, even in his prime. All about finesse & control.

Yeah, that was sarcasm directed at BL about his everyone roided comment.

Posted by strikeout26 on 12/24/2018 7:56:00 PM (view original):
Don't forget that Maddux was throwing 94-96 in his late thirties.

You act like the only people using steroids were huge home run hitters and pitchers with high velocity and ignore the high percentage of players caught who were small, speedy middle infielders and slim relief pitchers.