is it a short term ban?? or forever?? I mean ive been tossed outta bars for thirty days....maybe once or twice..
looking for a wis definition of ban? bueller??? bueller???

To clarify a few things:

1. He was not banned from the site. The only action I took was to close the account that he should never have been using. I also offered to transfer prizes and unused seasons to a new account, which is not something we generally due when someone violates the Terms of Use.

2. This rule is clearly stated in our Terms, and has existed since I can remember, probably dating to the early 2000s.

3. It's understandable for someone not to be aware of every rule of the site. However, I don't see how you would not think that taking over an account might be against the rules, which should lead you to seek out the terms or ask us. Like I said before, there's no reason someone would take over another account besides gaining an advantage that other users do not get.

4. I've only been in charge of dealing with these kinds of issues since August of 2018, but I was heavily involved in everything going on with the site for many years. I'm not aware of any time that we've allowed a transferred account to remain in use in a case where there was clear evidence it had been transferred. If someone has evidence of that, feel free to present it. This is never something we've knowingly allowed. I distinctly remember a few cases of people attempting to sell their accounts on Ebay, which we put a stop to.

5. Using the yatzr tool is not analogous to transferring your account. To my knowledge, that tool stored your login information locally on your computer to use in accessing YOUR account.

1. Either you know how long and tedious it is to lose everything and start over from scratch, or you're naive and incapable of running the site. I'm thinking the former. So, we can agree that transferring the prizes and unused seasons that he had purchased is minimal effort at best. Anything other is theft.

2. Define "clearly". Who cares what's stated in your terms and conditions if it's never enforced? You have situations in Rockne where two users, in the same conference, are PUBLICLY using the same username, and because they claim to be "brothers", you allow them to sidestep the fair play guidelines. Yet, we're supposed to accept you randomly enforcing a rule buried in your terms and conditions?

3. You're being naive again. Unless it's clearly communicated to the consumer, no one will know and the burden is not on the player to send a ticket. The burden is on you to communicate effectively. And secondly, you are flat out making a wrong assumption. Here's a scenario that happens OFTEN:

User 1: "I have (insert major life event) happening. Can you cover for me until my availability changes? Here's the info for my account"

User 2: "Sure"

One month later

User 1: "Thanks for covering for me. I actually don't think I can come back to the game. The account is yours."

User 2 took over the account to help the friend, and then inherited the account because the friend couldn't return to the game. This was not to gain a competitive advantage. I have lost count how many times I've heard and witnessed this happening. You have literally NEVER closed these accounts. I could give you a list but I actually don't want to ruin a hobby for these individuals.

4. Surely you can't compare this to accounts being sold on Ebay. Why even bring that up? Additionally, do you even realize how easy this would be to enforce? Other sites. Other COLLEGE FOOTBALL SIMULATION GAMES will close accounts if they see multiple ID's logging in from the same IP address. Others even have software to read computers coming in from hidden IP's and recognize similarities. My point is, if you actually were enforcing this rule, this would have never happened. You ONLY found out because another user alerted you to the fact.

You need to find a different solution. This one is backfiring. LISTEN to your clients.

Posted by seble on 2/13/2019 9:58:00 PM (view original):
To clarify a few things:

1. He was not banned from the site. The only action I took was to close the account that he should never have been using. I also offered to transfer prizes and unused seasons to a new account, which is not something we generally due when someone violates the Terms of Use.

2. This rule is clearly stated in our Terms, and has existed since I can remember, probably dating to the early 2000s.

3. It's understandable for someone not to be aware of every rule of the site. However, I don't see how you would not think that taking over an account might be against the rules, which should lead you to seek out the terms or ask us. Like I said before, there's no reason someone would take over another account besides gaining an advantage that other users do not get.

4. I've only been in charge of dealing with these kinds of issues since August of 2018, but I was heavily involved in everything going on with the site for many years. I'm not aware of any time that we've allowed a transferred account to remain in use in a case where there was clear evidence it had been transferred. If someone has evidence of that, feel free to present it. This is never something we've knowingly allowed. I distinctly remember a few cases of people attempting to sell their accounts on Ebay, which we put a stop to.

5. Using the yatzr tool is not analogous to transferring your account. To my knowledge, that tool stored your login information locally on your computer to use in accessing YOUR account.

1. Your offering of some unused seasons isn't something that the majority of GD users would consider as a decent offer. Someone spent hundreds of dollars building up Dynasties in several worlds only to lose every dynasty he built over several years. Don't pat yourself on the back.

2. WIS rules is a funny thing to throw in our faces. WIS allowed known cheaters (TigerPark and his aliases) to cheat several coaches leading to all of them leaving the site. Those coaches put time into the community - mentored coaches, participated writing articles, doing podcasts,, etc. Huskerfan26 was litterally the last of two guys keeping an active GD blog and active GD podcasts. Nice job on "fixing" the huskerfan26 account. I'm sure the game is better now......

3. You don't see why anyone would not think that taking over an old account is against the rules is because you simply don't understand GD or the GD community. I joined WIS in 2006 and have played every game, and have been involved with a lot of HBD and GD. Coaches in GD have multiple nicknames, use accounts that were originally for their spouses/brothers/friends/etc. "Multiple" coaches that have been playing for 10+ years have used someone else's account. Why? Because D3 and D2 sucks and is a waste of money. huskerfan26 took over an account that was qualified for what: a D1 mid-major? I competed against huskerfan26 in several worlds and he didn't cheat me. Who did he harm? I'd give you a list of nicknames but why ban the last guys hanging on to a game ran by a poor site?

4. If you were "heavily involved" in the community you would understand why coaches leave GD and don't come back. I'm leaving at the end of this season in Wilkinson and I'll never give another dollar to WIS. I was leaving before any of this huskerfan26 nonsense happened. If I was huskerfan I wouldn't take your stupid offer either - I'd put my energy into a game and community that treats players better.

Posted by seble on 2/13/2019 9:58:00 PM (view original):
To clarify a few things:

1. He was not banned from the site. The only action I took was to close the account that he should never have been using. I also offered to transfer prizes and unused seasons to a new account, which is not something we generally due when someone violates the Terms of Use.

2. This rule is clearly stated in our Terms, and has existed since I can remember, probably dating to the early 2000s.

3. It's understandable for someone not to be aware of every rule of the site. However, I don't see how you would not think that taking over an account might be against the rules, which should lead you to seek out the terms or ask us. Like I said before, there's no reason someone would take over another account besides gaining an advantage that other users do not get.

4. I've only been in charge of dealing with these kinds of issues since August of 2018, but I was heavily involved in everything going on with the site for many years. I'm not aware of any time that we've allowed a transferred account to remain in use in a case where there was clear evidence it had been transferred. If someone has evidence of that, feel free to present it. This is never something we've knowingly allowed. I distinctly remember a few cases of people attempting to sell their accounts on Ebay, which we put a stop to.

5. Using the yatzr tool is not analogous to transferring your account. To my knowledge, that tool stored your login information locally on your computer to use in accessing YOUR account.

Seble I'm sorry but this situation has been handled in a very, very poor manner. The fact that even now, you're being this relentless and unreasonable proves that WIS, not just GD, will never get better and promises or commitments will continue to get broken. You can stick by your rulebook and keep driving away more and more customers who were willing to pay for a product and service that isnt even 1/3 of what it used to be.

We're all now aware of this rule that was, I'm sure, unknowingly broken. But I agree with former comments, why do others get a 2nd, 3rd or more chance to make a change or make it right but here we just shut it down within 24 hours? Oh wait my bad you told him he could just kiss the last 4 years and all of that investment goodbye but hey, come back and start over.... DOES THAT SOUND FUN TO ANY OTHER GD USER?

So let me get this straight, you are punishing a guy who is a valued member of this game to those of us that know him from Wilkinson world as well as other worlds because someone complained thinking that because he had huskerfan in common in his name that they were cheating in recruiting? The accuser now has recanted his statement. You guys would have never even known anything about this had they not told you what they did years ago. Now do you honestly think they would tell you that they did this if they thought it was against the rules? Your lack of customer service and then these fumbling moves keep sending away the guys that have done the most for this game and kept it enjoyable for the rest of the GD community. This game is in a death spiral and decisions like this one reduce the amount of parachutes!

Posted by seble on 2/13/2019 9:58:00 PM (view original):
To clarify a few things:

1. He was not banned from the site. The only action I took was to close the account that he should never have been using. I also offered to transfer prizes and unused seasons to a new account, which is not something we generally due when someone violates the Terms of Use.

2. This rule is clearly stated in our Terms, and has existed since I can remember, probably dating to the early 2000s.

3. It's understandable for someone not to be aware of every rule of the site. However, I don't see how you would not think that taking over an account might be against the rules, which should lead you to seek out the terms or ask us. Like I said before, there's no reason someone would take over another account besides gaining an advantage that other users do not get.

4. I've only been in charge of dealing with these kinds of issues since August of 2018, but I was heavily involved in everything going on with the site for many years. I'm not aware of any time that we've allowed a transferred account to remain in use in a case where there was clear evidence it had been transferred. If someone has evidence of that, feel free to present it. This is never something we've knowingly allowed. I distinctly remember a few cases of people attempting to sell their accounts on Ebay, which we put a stop to.

5. Using the yatzr tool is not analogous to transferring your account. To my knowledge, that tool stored your login information locally on your computer to use in accessing YOUR account.

So glad to see one adult in the room. Thank you, Seble.

The rest of this thread is subject matter for a Master's thesis waiting to be written about Millennials, Generation-X and the Development of Entitlement.

Edited after the fact to comment that the post below this is a good example of what I am talking about.

@Debeque your strawman argument about generational entitlement shows your stupidity and lack of basic reading comprehension.

@Seble - this is ridiculous in software development the KEY to success is LISTENING to your users. I assume as the VP of Technology that you generally understand the underlying importance of this. I hope you can find a better resolution to this than banning his account. I get this is a big waste of your time going back and forth but I think coming to a fair and reasonable solution (not the one you listed above) will go a long way to showing the GD community you care by assessing the situation pragmatically and not like a binary robot. Which I believe that you do truly care or you wouldn't be spending the time responding.

I don't claim to have all the answers.
What I do feel strongly is that the Human element is far more important than the technical rules.
The guy should get a slap on the wrist but not have his account yanked. Because nothing was gained by him taking over the account except him not having to start at the bottom.
Instead of sticking to the very IMO unfair existing rule, I feel it is time to change the rule and not lose a great contributer to the GD community not to mention a revenue stream for Wis.
I have personally been involved with the Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Games where myself and a partner used to level characters up and then sell the accounts to people who didn't want to take the time to do it.
When we started this the companies that owned the games had rules to not allow this. But eventually they realized that instead of hurting them it brought them many new players that were revenue streams. Not sure if they actually changed the rules but they stopped trying to fight it because they realized it was good for the game company as well as the new player who now did not have to waste his time to get to compete at top levels.
To bring this analogy to GD, what does it hurt for someone to inherit an account ?
Don't hurt your customers . Change the rule.

Put an amnesty program in place to root out all the multi ID types. Some are benevolent like this particular husker, many aren't. But root them out and then make clear going forward than no ID sharing or multiple ID's are allowed.

5. Yatzr tool takes your credentials and recruits for you. Doesn't matter that the database is local. Bots are forbidden by the Limited License section of the Terms.

You can't have it both ways.

Posted by hypnotoad on 2/14/2019 5:55:00 AM (view original):
Put an amnesty program in place to root out all the multi ID types. Some are benevolent like this particular husker, many aren't. But root them out and then make clear going forward than no ID sharing or multiple ID's are allowed.

Agree. WIS has clearly stoked confusion around this rule, and amnesty plus clarification would be reasonable.

Posted by kcsundevil on 2/13/2019 8:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bomber085 on 2/13/2019 7:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 2/13/2019 3:41:00 PM (view original):
If this thread is going to turn into an account witch hunt, I'll close it down. There's no rule against multiple accounts as long as you follow the Fair Play Guidelines. If someone is violating those, contact us with the evidence. Otherwise, it would be nice to move on.

Thanks

Want to know an easy way to move on? Reinstate him. The fact that you banned a member, who has contributed to the game greatly and is a frequent client, for "breaking a rule" which can't be found in the fair play guidelines and wasn't being enforced prior to this instance is asinine. You then attempt to distract everyone with a thread about improving recruiting? We should all be insulted but then again, why should we ever expect more from WIS?

I came back this season in hopes that WIS and GD had changed. The timing of this just proves that I never should have come back. You sir are making an incredibly foolish decision. Don't give me this "we're updating the game BS". You continue to listen to the two users who actually cause issues, while banning and ignoring the good guys (the other 95% of WIS users). You literally have two coaches in Rockne, with the same name, in the same conference but because they claim to be brothers, they get away with it. Yet, husker of all people gets banned. Your priorities are as whacked as your customer service tactics.

Good day to you.

"You agree not to use the email address or password of another member or subscriber at any time and not to allow any other person to use your account."

I'll give you that enforcement has been inconsistent. Didn't the yatzr recruiting tool require users to give their credentials to yatzr's database?

No, you saved your info on the application on your computer, much like saving passwords in your browser.

"You agree not to use the email address or password of another member or subscriber at any time and not to allow any other person to use your account."


So does that mean that you can't have people help you recruit when you can't? I don't know how you would do it other than using their account.

Posted by waregl72 on 2/14/2019 12:28:00 PM (view original):
"You agree not to use the email address or password of another member or subscriber at any time and not to allow any other person to use your account."


So does that mean that you can't have people help you recruit when you can't? I don't know how you would do it other than using their account.

Yep, violation, but has always been tolerated.

I want to give seble the benefit of the doubt here. Still hoping he will work out a constructive solution that acknowledges WIS let this get away from them through 10+ years of lax enforcement.