I know some people love D3, I liked it a lot. But I think the biggest concern is the time, effort and $ it takes to get to a school you've heard of. You wouldn't have to make any game mechanic changes if D3 was eliminated altogether. Fewer seasons to D1, consolidated usership. I'm sure some users would drop that are D3 specialists, but it may be the best, simplest solution without major mechanics change.

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Posted by duece112 on 2/17/2019 3:38:00 AM (view original):
I know some people love D3, I liked it a lot. But I think the biggest concern is the time, effort and $ it takes to get to a school you've heard of. You wouldn't have to make any game mechanic changes if D3 was eliminated altogether. Fewer seasons to D1, consolidated usership. I'm sure some users would drop that are D3 specialists, but it may be the best, simplest solution without major mechanics change.

Why eliminate D3? Just fix jobs and make it easier to move up.

D3 used to be its own game and it was a lot of fun. I really like the separate recruiting pools idea. D3 teams should be competing against D3 team. Not effing D1 teams (even Sims)

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 11:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by duece112 on 2/17/2019 3:38:00 AM (view original):
I know some people love D3, I liked it a lot. But I think the biggest concern is the time, effort and $ it takes to get to a school you've heard of. You wouldn't have to make any game mechanic changes if D3 was eliminated altogether. Fewer seasons to D1, consolidated usership. I'm sure some users would drop that are D3 specialists, but it may be the best, simplest solution without major mechanics change.

Why eliminate D3? Just fix jobs and make it easier to move up.

D3 used to be its own game and it was a lot of fun. I really like the separate recruiting pools idea. D3 teams should be competing against D3 team. Not effing D1 teams (even Sims)

That's been my biggest complaint since I started playing.I love being in D3 even if it will take a while to move up. It is a lot of fun but the recruiting pools should be separated. D3 compete for recruits with D3 teams, D2 with D2 and D1 with D1. It doesn't seem fair or realistic that D1 school will scoop in and take D3 recruits or for that matter D3 schools being able to recruit D1 prospects.

Posted by Tuzotonic on 2/17/2019 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 11:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by duece112 on 2/17/2019 3:38:00 AM (view original):
I know some people love D3, I liked it a lot. But I think the biggest concern is the time, effort and $ it takes to get to a school you've heard of. You wouldn't have to make any game mechanic changes if D3 was eliminated altogether. Fewer seasons to D1, consolidated usership. I'm sure some users would drop that are D3 specialists, but it may be the best, simplest solution without major mechanics change.

Why eliminate D3? Just fix jobs and make it easier to move up.

D3 used to be its own game and it was a lot of fun. I really like the separate recruiting pools idea. D3 teams should be competing against D3 team. Not effing D1 teams (even Sims)

That's been my biggest complaint since I started playing.I love being in D3 even if it will take a while to move up. It is a lot of fun but the recruiting pools should be separated. D3 compete for recruits with D3 teams, D2 with D2 and D1 with D1. It doesn't seem fair or realistic that D1 school will scoop in and take D3 recruits or for that matter D3 schools being able to recruit D1 prospects.

Hmm very interesting for a person brand new to the game to say that. I only thought the old farts who wanted to **** and moan thought that.

WEIRD.

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 12:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Tuzotonic on 2/17/2019 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 11:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by duece112 on 2/17/2019 3:38:00 AM (view original):
I know some people love D3, I liked it a lot. But I think the biggest concern is the time, effort and $ it takes to get to a school you've heard of. You wouldn't have to make any game mechanic changes if D3 was eliminated altogether. Fewer seasons to D1, consolidated usership. I'm sure some users would drop that are D3 specialists, but it may be the best, simplest solution without major mechanics change.

Why eliminate D3? Just fix jobs and make it easier to move up.

D3 used to be its own game and it was a lot of fun. I really like the separate recruiting pools idea. D3 teams should be competing against D3 team. Not effing D1 teams (even Sims)

That's been my biggest complaint since I started playing.I love being in D3 even if it will take a while to move up. It is a lot of fun but the recruiting pools should be separated. D3 compete for recruits with D3 teams, D2 with D2 and D1 with D1. It doesn't seem fair or realistic that D1 school will scoop in and take D3 recruits or for that matter D3 schools being able to recruit D1 prospects.

Hmm very interesting for a person brand new to the game to say that. I only thought the old farts who wanted to **** and moan thought that.

WEIRD.

Lol, look out world. Benis must be a prophet because this one guy said something that agrees with what Benis has been trying to get people to say for 3 years.

Separate pools will not help anyone but experienced players. Right now, a new player has access to exactly the same quality of player that a guy playing for 100 seasons has. Cap the pools, and now the veterans will absolutely dominate that limited pool. A smaller pool puts the premium on prestige and experience. You think it’s bad getting guys snatched away by higher division schools? That’s nothing. If a higher division school takes your player, you never have to worry about him. When the A+ D3 schools are taking your players away, that’s when it hurts.

**Prioritization is an important skill**. The folks saying “cap it” don’t want to worry about prioritization. They don’t like having to bother with the consequences of choices, they want their backup options to be there waiting for them when they go all in and lose on their elite recruits. Don’t fall for this nonsense. This was all discussed in beta, and it was smartly rejected by the developers.

All that said, if D3 is made into a free to play sandbox with no incentives, then cap away. It’s basically a separate game at that point. But if you do that, I think it’s even more important to eliminate the distinction between divisions of recruit pools between D1 and D2. Success has to be about more than just counting.

Posted by shoe3 on 2/17/2019 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 12:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Tuzotonic on 2/17/2019 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 11:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by duece112 on 2/17/2019 3:38:00 AM (view original):
I know some people love D3, I liked it a lot. But I think the biggest concern is the time, effort and $ it takes to get to a school you've heard of. You wouldn't have to make any game mechanic changes if D3 was eliminated altogether. Fewer seasons to D1, consolidated usership. I'm sure some users would drop that are D3 specialists, but it may be the best, simplest solution without major mechanics change.

Why eliminate D3? Just fix jobs and make it easier to move up.

D3 used to be its own game and it was a lot of fun. I really like the separate recruiting pools idea. D3 teams should be competing against D3 team. Not effing D1 teams (even Sims)

That's been my biggest complaint since I started playing.I love being in D3 even if it will take a while to move up. It is a lot of fun but the recruiting pools should be separated. D3 compete for recruits with D3 teams, D2 with D2 and D1 with D1. It doesn't seem fair or realistic that D1 school will scoop in and take D3 recruits or for that matter D3 schools being able to recruit D1 prospects.

Hmm very interesting for a person brand new to the game to say that. I only thought the old farts who wanted to **** and moan thought that.

WEIRD.

Lol, look out world. Benis must be a prophet because this one guy said something that agrees with what Benis has been trying to get people to say for 3 years.

Separate pools will not help anyone but experienced players. Right now, a new player has access to exactly the same quality of player that a guy playing for 100 seasons has. Cap the pools, and now the veterans will absolutely dominate that limited pool. A smaller pool puts the premium on prestige and experience. You think it’s bad getting guys snatched away by higher division schools? That’s nothing. If a higher division school takes your player, you never have to worry about him. When the A+ D3 schools are taking your players away, that’s when it hurts.

**Prioritization is an important skill**. The folks saying “cap it” don’t want to worry about prioritization. They don’t like having to bother with the consequences of choices, they want their backup options to be there waiting for them when they go all in and lose on their elite recruits. Don’t fall for this nonsense. This was all discussed in beta, and it was smartly rejected by the developers.

All that said, if D3 is made into a free to play sandbox with no incentives, then cap away. It’s basically a separate game at that point. But if you do that, I think it’s even more important to eliminate the distinction between divisions of recruit pools between D1 and D2. Success has to be about more than just counting.

I think Free to play Division 3 is more of the option than most people think. Just earn credits for winning divisions and tournaments.

Posted by shoe3 on 2/17/2019 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 12:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Tuzotonic on 2/17/2019 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 11:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by duece112 on 2/17/2019 3:38:00 AM (view original):
I know some people love D3, I liked it a lot. But I think the biggest concern is the time, effort and $ it takes to get to a school you've heard of. You wouldn't have to make any game mechanic changes if D3 was eliminated altogether. Fewer seasons to D1, consolidated usership. I'm sure some users would drop that are D3 specialists, but it may be the best, simplest solution without major mechanics change.

Why eliminate D3? Just fix jobs and make it easier to move up.

D3 used to be its own game and it was a lot of fun. I really like the separate recruiting pools idea. D3 teams should be competing against D3 team. Not effing D1 teams (even Sims)

That's been my biggest complaint since I started playing.I love being in D3 even if it will take a while to move up. It is a lot of fun but the recruiting pools should be separated. D3 compete for recruits with D3 teams, D2 with D2 and D1 with D1. It doesn't seem fair or realistic that D1 school will scoop in and take D3 recruits or for that matter D3 schools being able to recruit D1 prospects.

Hmm very interesting for a person brand new to the game to say that. I only thought the old farts who wanted to **** and moan thought that.

WEIRD.

Lol, look out world. Benis must be a prophet because this one guy said something that agrees with what Benis has been trying to get people to say for 3 years.

Separate pools will not help anyone but experienced players. Right now, a new player has access to exactly the same quality of player that a guy playing for 100 seasons has. Cap the pools, and now the veterans will absolutely dominate that limited pool. A smaller pool puts the premium on prestige and experience. You think it’s bad getting guys snatched away by higher division schools? That’s nothing. If a higher division school takes your player, you never have to worry about him. When the A+ D3 schools are taking your players away, that’s when it hurts.

**Prioritization is an important skill**. The folks saying “cap it” don’t want to worry about prioritization. They don’t like having to bother with the consequences of choices, they want their backup options to be there waiting for them when they go all in and lose on their elite recruits. Don’t fall for this nonsense. This was all discussed in beta, and it was smartly rejected by the developers.

All that said, if D3 is made into a free to play sandbox with no incentives, then cap away. It’s basically a separate game at that point. But if you do that, I think it’s even more important to eliminate the distinction between divisions of recruit pools between D1 and D2. Success has to be about more than just counting.

"Right now, a new player has access to exactly the same quality of player that a guy playing for 100 seasons has."

I disagree. Sure they CAN. But if you put 100 season me, up against a new user today for a player in the Top 300 overall, I'm gonna smoke him! (I have 100 total seasons now. And of my 42 since my return, i'd consider about 5 of those being in my "new coach" stage. And I point this out because.....)

That goes back to my point that this game needs to be "taught" rather than "learned". I'd crush that same coach if he had an A+ D2 team and I had a C- D2 team. Because he wouldn't approach the battle correctly.

So sure, he can technically have a shot. But realistically he's toast. Now once he got some seasons under his belt, he could beat me. But at that point, he's either not a new coach anymore. Or he's not here anymore. If he lasts those 5 seasons that I did, he can figure it out. But if those first 5 seasons are all frustration, bye bye new coach.

Posted by topdogggbm on 2/17/2019 4:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 2/17/2019 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 12:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Tuzotonic on 2/17/2019 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 11:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by duece112 on 2/17/2019 3:38:00 AM (view original):
I know some people love D3, I liked it a lot. But I think the biggest concern is the time, effort and $ it takes to get to a school you've heard of. You wouldn't have to make any game mechanic changes if D3 was eliminated altogether. Fewer seasons to D1, consolidated usership. I'm sure some users would drop that are D3 specialists, but it may be the best, simplest solution without major mechanics change.

Why eliminate D3? Just fix jobs and make it easier to move up.

D3 used to be its own game and it was a lot of fun. I really like the separate recruiting pools idea. D3 teams should be competing against D3 team. Not effing D1 teams (even Sims)

That's been my biggest complaint since I started playing.I love being in D3 even if it will take a while to move up. It is a lot of fun but the recruiting pools should be separated. D3 compete for recruits with D3 teams, D2 with D2 and D1 with D1. It doesn't seem fair or realistic that D1 school will scoop in and take D3 recruits or for that matter D3 schools being able to recruit D1 prospects.

Hmm very interesting for a person brand new to the game to say that. I only thought the old farts who wanted to **** and moan thought that.

WEIRD.

Lol, look out world. Benis must be a prophet because this one guy said something that agrees with what Benis has been trying to get people to say for 3 years.

Separate pools will not help anyone but experienced players. Right now, a new player has access to exactly the same quality of player that a guy playing for 100 seasons has. Cap the pools, and now the veterans will absolutely dominate that limited pool. A smaller pool puts the premium on prestige and experience. You think it’s bad getting guys snatched away by higher division schools? That’s nothing. If a higher division school takes your player, you never have to worry about him. When the A+ D3 schools are taking your players away, that’s when it hurts.

**Prioritization is an important skill**. The folks saying “cap it” don’t want to worry about prioritization. They don’t like having to bother with the consequences of choices, they want their backup options to be there waiting for them when they go all in and lose on their elite recruits. Don’t fall for this nonsense. This was all discussed in beta, and it was smartly rejected by the developers.

All that said, if D3 is made into a free to play sandbox with no incentives, then cap away. It’s basically a separate game at that point. But if you do that, I think it’s even more important to eliminate the distinction between divisions of recruit pools between D1 and D2. Success has to be about more than just counting.

"Right now, a new player has access to exactly the same quality of player that a guy playing for 100 seasons has."

I disagree. Sure they CAN. But if you put 100 season me, up against a new user today for a player in the Top 300 overall, I'm gonna smoke him! (I have 100 total seasons now. And of my 42 since my return, i'd consider about 5 of those being in my "new coach" stage. And I point this out because.....)

That goes back to my point that this game needs to be "taught" rather than "learned". I'd crush that same coach if he had an A+ D2 team and I had a C- D2 team. Because he wouldn't approach the battle correctly.

So sure, he can technically have a shot. But realistically he's toast. Now once he got some seasons under his belt, he could beat me. But at that point, he's either not a new coach anymore. Or he's not here anymore. If he lasts those 5 seasons that I did, he can figure it out. But if those first 5 seasons are all frustration, bye bye new coach.

Missing the point here TD. The point is the size of the pool. New players don’t have to go up against 100 season vets to get 500+ OVR players with good potential in key areas right now. Fill your roster with that kind of player, and you’re a contender. There are a lot of those players at the bottom of the D1 pool, or top of the D2 pool. Close off those pools, you make that new player fish in the same pool as the 100 season vet. Now it’s a *lot* harder to land top players.

Veteran players will always crush new players. It’s true, it’s always been true, and as long as they’re in the same division, it will always be true. The question is whether those new players will have a chance to reasonably move up, whether “taught” or “learned” (and I strongly disagree that the game has to be taught - there is no single way to play, or to win, and good coaches can figure it out by observation, trial and error, and have a good time doing it.). Remove those pull down options from them, and they will have a lot harder time making headway, because they’re always going to be at a disadvantage for those top of the pool players.

huh? The newbie is already swimming in the same pool as the vet. Plus, the newbie doesn't realize he has NO chance of actually signing the players he is going after. Closing the pool makes it a LOT HARDER for the vets to land those studs that shouldn't even be playing in DIII.

My taught/learned example is more about recruiting than anything. I mentor every person that reaches out to me. To the point that I spend more time with them, than on some of my own teams. I think it's good to give back, if you wanna word it that way.

But no new guys coming in think to look in the D1 pool at D3. Some guys I talk with don't realize you can hit the "home visit" button more than once in a cycle. I've heard that one a couple times. Some coaches think once they get behind, it's over. Some coaches have thought to STOP targeting D1s because they can only get to moderate (at D2 or D3). These are all examples that vets take for granted and think it would be foolish to not understand things. But unless you read every inch of this site, there are many things that can be over looked as a new coach. And each one of these guys can be over looking something totally different.

That's what I mean about being taught. Sure you can stumble around in the dark for a while with some things. But how long will that last before you choose to bail? They don't need to know every strategic tip when they begin, but some basics would be nice. And not everybody comes in and starts by reading all the information that is sprinkled throughout the site. They just come in sometimes and start pushing buttons. The faster we can get new users up to speed, the better. In my opinion.

A little off topic. But it is a decent topic of its own

Posted by mullycj on 2/17/2019 5:36:00 PM (view original):
huh? The newbie is already swimming in the same pool as the vet. Plus, the newbie doesn't realize he has NO chance of actually signing the players he is going after. Closing the pool makes it a LOT HARDER for the vets to land those studs that shouldn't even be playing in DIII.

Nope. Closing the pool makes it a LOT EASIER for the vets to land the *best players in the pool* which is what matters.

Forget about the “shouldn’t even be playing in DWhatever”. We decide what level a player is, based on the recruiting choices we make. A 560 OVR Juco from the D2 pool is a D1 player if a D1 coach decides that guy is better than a walkon. A 545 OVR freshman with mediocre, green cores is a D3 player, if no D1 or D2 humans decide to invest early attention and/or resources in him.

Right now, there is not much difference between the chances of a new player who knows how the system works, and a vet in landing either of those types players. There are lots of them. Closing off the pools means the best players available will be more scarce. Higher prestige teams with more experienced coaches will be much better positioned. Right now, new players are in the same boat as everyone in D3, waiting to see what falls. But there are lots more good, usable fish. Closing the pool makes those fish a lot more scarce.

Posted by topdogggbm on 2/17/2019 6:01:00 PM (view original):
My taught/learned example is more about recruiting than anything. I mentor every person that reaches out to me. To the point that I spend more time with them, than on some of my own teams. I think it's good to give back, if you wanna word it that way.

But no new guys coming in think to look in the D1 pool at D3. Some guys I talk with don't realize you can hit the "home visit" button more than once in a cycle. I've heard that one a couple times. Some coaches think once they get behind, it's over. Some coaches have thought to STOP targeting D1s because they can only get to moderate (at D2 or D3). These are all examples that vets take for granted and think it would be foolish to not understand things. But unless you read every inch of this site, there are many things that can be over looked as a new coach. And each one of these guys can be over looking something totally different.

That's what I mean about being taught. Sure you can stumble around in the dark for a while with some things. But how long will that last before you choose to bail? They don't need to know every strategic tip when they begin, but some basics would be nice. And not everybody comes in and starts by reading all the information that is sprinkled throughout the site. They just come in sometimes and start pushing buttons. The faster we can get new users up to speed, the better. In my opinion.

A little off topic. But it is a decent topic of its own

I mentor folks too. Some have figured out the pools, some haven’t. Everyone is capable, but you’re right, some folks will get frustrated and leave. I’m not too concerned about losing that kind of player. The players I want to compete against are the types of smart, observant, and creative folks who will appreciate open-ended games like this, and will be patient/persistent enough to give it a chance. The best games are the deep ones that have many paths.

So as I've said a bunch of times, if you want to have a dumbed down “simple” version of the game for new players, fine. Cap it, make it free with no incentives, and it’s a sandbox for figuring out the mechanics. But people shouldn’t be rewarded for dominating the port of entry in a dumbed down version of this game, which is what capping creates.

Posted by shoe3 on 2/17/2019 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 12:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Tuzotonic on 2/17/2019 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/17/2019 11:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by duece112 on 2/17/2019 3:38:00 AM (view original):
I know some people love D3, I liked it a lot. But I think the biggest concern is the time, effort and $ it takes to get to a school you've heard of. You wouldn't have to make any game mechanic changes if D3 was eliminated altogether. Fewer seasons to D1, consolidated usership. I'm sure some users would drop that are D3 specialists, but it may be the best, simplest solution without major mechanics change.

Why eliminate D3? Just fix jobs and make it easier to move up.

D3 used to be its own game and it was a lot of fun. I really like the separate recruiting pools idea. D3 teams should be competing against D3 team. Not effing D1 teams (even Sims)

That's been my biggest complaint since I started playing.I love being in D3 even if it will take a while to move up. It is a lot of fun but the recruiting pools should be separated. D3 compete for recruits with D3 teams, D2 with D2 and D1 with D1. It doesn't seem fair or realistic that D1 school will scoop in and take D3 recruits or for that matter D3 schools being able to recruit D1 prospects.

Hmm very interesting for a person brand new to the game to say that. I only thought the old farts who wanted to **** and moan thought that.

WEIRD.

Lol, look out world. Benis must be a prophet because this one guy said something that agrees with what Benis has been trying to get people to say for 3 years.

Separate pools will not help anyone but experienced players. Right now, a new player has access to exactly the same quality of player that a guy playing for 100 seasons has. Cap the pools, and now the veterans will absolutely dominate that limited pool. A smaller pool puts the premium on prestige and experience. You think it’s bad getting guys snatched away by higher division schools? That’s nothing. If a higher division school takes your player, you never have to worry about him. When the A+ D3 schools are taking your players away, that’s when it hurts.

**Prioritization is an important skill**. The folks saying “cap it” don’t want to worry about prioritization. They don’t like having to bother with the consequences of choices, they want their backup options to be there waiting for them when they go all in and lose on their elite recruits. Don’t fall for this nonsense. This was all discussed in beta, and it was smartly rejected by the developers.

All that said, if D3 is made into a free to play sandbox with no incentives, then cap away. It’s basically a separate game at that point. But if you do that, I think it’s even more important to eliminate the distinction between divisions of recruit pools between D1 and D2. Success has to be about more than just counting.

I'm not sure what your early experience was, but your thought process is the complete opposite of what me and many others have experienced. When I first entered this game with a significantly larger population of players than now, I had no problem adapting quickly and competing with the best teams early. All I did was ask questions and read the forums a little. It took a season or 2 to really grasp an appropriate approach to recruiting (started too aggressively in season 1 burning through my money and then got too conservative in season 2). After that I was rolling fine. Your idea of good coaches dominating a more limited pool is highly inaccurate. What happens is good coaches will run into more battles against other good coaches within the same division. Recruiting throughout the recruiting cycle will become relevant again. New coaches may compete against elite coaches, but it's easier to get a focus on what recruits are good and compete against someone within the division compared to trying to navigate the world's entire player pool of recruits while then learning how to compete against elite coaches in higher divisions. Also stop projecting that everyone wants to go to DI. Let DI be great while still allowing the other divisions to still be fun. Just because it's not your thing does not mean others did not enjoy it.