Ideas to fix D3 and new user retention Topic

topdogggbm
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Good point about the D1 thing. I've said that a few times but no one else really chimed in. I think some new coaches will stay planted in lower divisions, because after losing for a while, once they get it figured out, they may what to keep that build going.

And I'm not sure about the rest of you, but even when I get a thought to move somewhere else, I get the "well, just one more season!" mentality going. And it happens the next season, and the next. And it's not long till I decide I'm never leaving, despite what I originally thought
2/18/2019 4:59 AM
shoe3
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“What happens is good coaches will run into more battles against other good coaches within the same division. Recruiting throughout the recruiting cycle will become relevant again. New coaches may compete against elite coaches, but it's easier to get a focus on what recruits are good and compete against someone within the division compared to trying to navigate the world's entire player pool of recruits while then learning how to compete against elite coaches in higher divisions.”

That isn’t what happens, poncho. I mean, that does happen - it happens now, too - but this isn’t how closing pools will affect new players.

For new players to have teams that can compete with veteran coaches within the division, they need access to the same level of players. They aren’t competing for NT bids against teams from higher divisions, that’s a nonsense argument. It doesn’t matter if a higher division team snatches a recruit. Losing a single recruit isn’t the “the game”, and its going to happen to everyone in D3. What matters is fielding a competitive team against the teams in your own division. That’s a lot harder to do if you have to directly compete with those teams for the top players available. That’s the effect of closing pools.
2/18/2019 9:42 AM
shoe3
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Posted by topdogggbm on 2/18/2019 4:59:00 AM (view original):
Good point about the D1 thing. I've said that a few times but no one else really chimed in. I think some new coaches will stay planted in lower divisions, because after losing for a while, once they get it figured out, they may what to keep that build going.

And I'm not sure about the rest of you, but even when I get a thought to move somewhere else, I get the "well, just one more season!" mentality going. And it happens the next season, and the next. And it's not long till I decide I'm never leaving, despite what I originally thought
None of this is wrong, on its own. And this goes against the idea that lower divisions are now inherently not fun. It’s fine, if that’s your thing. That’s why I’m not arguing - as some do - that they should just be lopped off.

If you stuck around, great. This thread isn’t directed at your experience. A thread about increasing retention is about figuring out why people don’t try it, or try it and say “nah”. For those folks, the starting place isn’t capping pools. That’s a solution in search of a problem. And it isn’t getting crushed by vets for a couple seasons until you figure things out. If you start a game like this expecting to be championship level right away, you probably aren’t a good fit for this kind of game anyway. I think the starting place is the time and money one has to spend to get to the place you were thinking of before you started playing.

Most of the population decrease comes from update attrition due to long time players losing advantages they were enjoying. At all levels, it was “superconferences” losing conference tourney cash and rollover; and at D1 it was also the increased volatility of early entries, and the increased difficulty of replacing them right away. None of these things affect a new or potential player looking at starting the game. There were lots of things that could have been done to try to make up for the attrition, including addressing the startup cost by fixing hiring, and better marketing. Instead, the parent company immediately reorganized, severanced the developer, and then sold the whole package to another company that apparently isn’t really interested in it other than a potential pool of users to attract to its more traditional sports gaming (gambling) activities. It is what it is. The game is plenty fun for those of us who like this sort of thing.
2/18/2019 10:03 AM
Benis
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I really like the idea of separate pools per division and then increasing budgets for D3 to at least match what is currently given for D2. It's the most difficult to scout at D3 and that obviously makes very little sense. New folks will have no idea what is the most efficient way to scout and just blow through their budget.

During Beta a bunch of people told Seble that the scouting budgets at D3 were too small and now it would be really difficult to recruit players that are far away. Seble said that he didn't want D3 to scout the entire country because "this wasn't realistic to what D3 schools do in real life". But somehow it's realistic for D3 teams to battle D1 teams for recruits? The logic for some of these decisions is so f*cking stupid that I think my head will explode.
2/18/2019 10:04 AM
shoe3
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Posted by Benis on 2/18/2019 10:04:00 AM (view original):
I really like the idea of separate pools per division and then increasing budgets for D3 to at least match what is currently given for D2. It's the most difficult to scout at D3 and that obviously makes very little sense. New folks will have no idea what is the most efficient way to scout and just blow through their budget.

During Beta a bunch of people told Seble that the scouting budgets at D3 were too small and now it would be really difficult to recruit players that are far away. Seble said that he didn't want D3 to scout the entire country because "this wasn't realistic to what D3 schools do in real life". But somehow it's realistic for D3 teams to battle D1 teams for recruits? The logic for some of these decisions is so f*cking stupid that I think my head will explode.
This is the exact language of the folks huddled around the0nlyis at the time of the exile. We saw through it in beta, hopefully folks continue to see through it now. The interest here is in a game that is knowable and gameable, so the gamerz, and the folks drawn into their cadre (that means small group, Benis) can dominate.

Which users benefit most from increased scouting budgets, and scouting nationally at D3? Experienced coaches. Which programs benefit most from a closed pool, where they don’t have to worry about higher division teams snatching up recruits they are highly invested in? Entrenched high prestige programs.

If you remove the cost and the credits from D3, cap away. Otherwise, you just want a return to winner’s ball.
2/18/2019 10:19 AM
Benis
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Posted by Benis on 2/18/2019 10:04:00 AM (view original):
I really like the idea of separate pools per division and then increasing budgets for D3 to at least match what is currently given for D2. It's the most difficult to scout at D3 and that obviously makes very little sense. New folks will have no idea what is the most efficient way to scout and just blow through their budget.

During Beta a bunch of people told Seble that the scouting budgets at D3 were too small and now it would be really difficult to recruit players that are far away. Seble said that he didn't want D3 to scout the entire country because "this wasn't realistic to what D3 schools do in real life". But somehow it's realistic for D3 teams to battle D1 teams for recruits? The logic for some of these decisions is so f*cking stupid that I think my head will explode.
Forgot to mention - the D3 player pool is also by far the largest. Then obviously you combine the D1 and D2 pools added to it. So you have by far the most 'recruitable' players to scout with the least amount of money. Makes sense.
2/18/2019 10:29 AM
Basketts
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Does WIS have an exit feedback poll for when coaches quit? Vets have a lot of great recommendations, but that really should be in place to get the opinion of those who actually quit early.
2/18/2019 5:30 PM
Sportsbulls
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Posted by Basketts on 2/18/2019 5:30:00 PM (view original):
Does WIS have an exit feedback poll for when coaches quit? Vets have a lot of great recommendations, but that really should be in place to get the opinion of those who actually quit early.
Don't know how this would work. but interesting idea.
2/18/2019 5:36 PM
l80r20
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“I’m not concerned about retaining the new players for whom the game is too complicated.”
And I am not concerned about the instant gratification crowd who can’t or won’t work their way up, although that is a minority opinion in this thread. Saying something like this: “If you start a game like this expecting to be championship level right away, you probably aren’t a good fit for this kind of game anyway” is a good observatiom, Then turning around and advocating speedy cheap trips to the top for these same people is being inconsistent. Speedy cheap trips to the top isn’t what fixing hiring should be about.

“Regarding the mechanics of recruiting, I think the best thing they could do is remove the division distinctions for the players. Everybody should be in one big pool. But signing tendency should be fluid. A 3 Star point guard should not sign with a D3 school until the final recruiting cycle; but that same guy’s signing tendency might show up as “late” for a D2, “End of Period 1” for a D1 mid-major, and “Early” for a power school. On the other hand, an unranked PG might sign with a D3 school by the end of period 1, if he’s not getting attention from higher schools.”
That is interesting, and sounds workable with appropriate budgets.

“Separate pools will not help anyone but experienced players.”
Truth. I hope people are able to understand your explanation. Obviously, a couple of guys did not. Thanks for calling out the “gamerz.”
2/18/2019 6:09 PM
ftbeaglesfan
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Cap coaching at any D3 school at 10 seasons. After 10 seasons you have to move to D2/D1 or have to take a different D3 program. This will open up the top D3 jobs to new players and keep veteran coaches from camping out at one powerhouse for 20+ seasons racking up credits by beating and dominating the newbs.

Make D3 teams that have B or better prestige available only to new players when their coaches leave. This way new players get to experience having a decent team and possible contender in one of their first five seasons of play. Maybe even earn some credits that will encourage them to keep going beyond their initial package.

Email to user after 10 seasons at same school in D3 might say something like "We are under NCAA investigation. Supposedly you have been offering scholarships and D3 does not give basketball scholarships to players. We know you didn't do it (wink,wink). We have been informed we need to let you go or receive sanctions. It's been great working with you and I wish you the best at your next job. I will happily give you a glowing reference for a D2 or D1 job. I hope you understand if I can't give you a recommendation for any of the high prestige D3 jobs available".
2/18/2019 6:48 PM (edited)
Sportsbulls
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Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 2/18/2019 6:48:00 PM (view original):
Cap coaching at any D3 school at 10 seasons. After 10 seasons you have to move to D2/D1 or have to take a different D3 program. This will open up the top D3 jobs to new players and keep veteran coaches from camping out at one powerhouse for 20+ seasons racking up credits by beating and dominating the newbs.

Make D3 teams that have B or better prestige available only to new players when their coaches leave. This way new players get to experience having a decent team and possible contender in one of their first five seasons of play. Maybe even earn some credits that will encourage them to keep going beyond their initial package.

Email to user after 10 seasons at same school in D3 might say something like "We are under NCAA investigation. Supposedly you have been offering scholarships and D3 does not give basketball scholarships to players. We know you didn't do it (wink,wink). We have been informed we need to let you go or receive sanctions. It's been great working with you and I wish you the best at your next job. I will happily give you a glowing reference for a D2 or D1 job. I hope you understand if I can't give you a recommendation for any of the high prestige D3 jobs available".
2/18/2019 7:39 PM
ftbeaglesfan
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So looking at your history Sportsbulls gives me some interesting information. You won early at a high prestige school (Nazareth was A- at the time) at D3 AND managed to bring in at least one great class of your own before moving to CSU Eastbay.

Did having a high prestige school, a great roster, and early success (five national tournaments and a Final Four in five seasons) provide for quicker learning or did you already have the knowledge before you created that ID?

Look forward to your feedback Sportsbulls. You were the exact person I hoped would respond to my comment above!
2/18/2019 9:24 PM (edited)
Benis
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Posted by Sportsbulls on 2/18/2019 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Basketts on 2/18/2019 5:30:00 PM (view original):
Does WIS have an exit feedback poll for when coaches quit? Vets have a lot of great recommendations, but that really should be in place to get the opinion of those who actually quit early.
Don't know how this would work. but interesting idea.
I think they do. But-

1. Who is gonna take the time to fill it out with good quality answers? Those people who play 1 season typically just ghost.
2. Who is actually going to compile the feedback they do get and do something about it?
2/18/2019 10:18 PM
Benis
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Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 2/18/2019 6:48:00 PM (view original):
Cap coaching at any D3 school at 10 seasons. After 10 seasons you have to move to D2/D1 or have to take a different D3 program. This will open up the top D3 jobs to new players and keep veteran coaches from camping out at one powerhouse for 20+ seasons racking up credits by beating and dominating the newbs.

Make D3 teams that have B or better prestige available only to new players when their coaches leave. This way new players get to experience having a decent team and possible contender in one of their first five seasons of play. Maybe even earn some credits that will encourage them to keep going beyond their initial package.

Email to user after 10 seasons at same school in D3 might say something like "We are under NCAA investigation. Supposedly you have been offering scholarships and D3 does not give basketball scholarships to players. We know you didn't do it (wink,wink). We have been informed we need to let you go or receive sanctions. It's been great working with you and I wish you the best at your next job. I will happily give you a glowing reference for a D2 or D1 job. I hope you understand if I can't give you a recommendation for any of the high prestige D3 jobs available".
Don't love it. I'd prefer to just change the reward structure to give more incentive to move up by giving bigger monetary rewards at D1/D2
2/18/2019 10:20 PM
shoe3
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“Saying something like this: “If you start a game like this expecting to be championship level right away, you probably aren’t a good fit for this kind of game anyway” is a good observatiom, Then turning around and advocating speedy cheap trips to the top for these same people is being inconsistent. Speedy cheap trips to the top isn’t what fixing hiring should be about.”

Nothing inconsistent here. Having lower divisions at all is not necessary. I personally know a number of people who should have liked this game, who all end up saying no thanks, because they correctly realized the forced stratification is a money suck, and don’t want to play a game like that. The game should be interested in trying to attract and retain Dynasty mode fans and stat/simulation geeks. The folks I don’t care about are the ones who can’t tolerate the ambiguity of having to battle for commodities, and having to rebuild sometimes when things don’t go their way.

In summary, Dynasty mode fans who don’t want to bother with unnecessary time and money suck lower divisions - keep.
Poor sports and gamerz whales wannabes - meh.
2/18/2019 11:02 PM
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