Is anyone willing to share if they have found success with closers, or is it just a crapshoot? I've played about 50 SIM leagues. My first 8-10 I was killing it with closers. I used different variations of Mariano Rivera and had a 50-plus save season with Greg Holland. But these days no matter who I get sucks. I have Quiz (over $5 million), and he has I believe 8 blown saves and 6 or 7 losses, and it's not even the all-star break. His ERA is approaching 6.00.

In another league I have Edwin Diaz and he's been just as brutal. I did have some success lately with Eck, but that is few and far between. I have tried pitching limits etc., but funny thing is when Rivera was dominating for me when I first started, I didn't pay attention to that at all. Anyway, I know blown saves are a part of the game, but nothing more frustrating than losing that lead in the 9th over and over again. Do others use non-closers in real life as closers in this game?

To answer your last question, yes. Real life saves have nothing to do with sim performance, so there's no incentive to use real life closers as closers in the sim.

Most closers have historically averaged around 1 inning (or even less) per game in real life. IP/G is used in the sim. Low IP/G means that the pitcher gets fatigued more quickly. So a guy who only throws to 1-3 batters in real life will get fatigued very quickly in the sim. I would recommend exploring the IP/G stat and trying to find and use pitchers who have better IP/G in the closer role.

Thanks for the info. I may look into doing something like that. I have Garland Braxton in a different league, and he has been decent after a rocky start despite only having 13 saves in real life back in 1927. I will pay attention to IP/G for sure. Thanks.

I've always felt bullpens are the great WIS equalizers. They always have the SSS defense, so the randomness of it can be insane.

one thing you can do, and i'm no expert, is don't let any pitcher go more innings in a game than he averaged in real life that year on a per game basis

i use 15 pitches as an IP cause the advanced whatever asks for a pitch count

but i am very comfortable using any starter in the history of baseball as a closer



except for maybe Silver King

You also need to pay attention to some of their peripheral stats. Eckersley is dominant, but some of his seasons, he gives up a high rate of homers for a reliever. And even if his overall numbers end up well, those HRs can be a killer for a closer. Rivera is one of the more dependable relievers, I find. Not always super dominant, but I rarely seem to get bust seasons from him. You may also want to consider your ballpark and what types of lineups you'll be facing (if it's a theme league).

I'm using Diaz for the first time in a current league. Small sample size, but through 16 games, he's pitched in 9 games. 10 IP, 2-0, 0.80 WHIP.

Low walks. Low homers. If you can afford a low OAV too, then go for it. If not, make them beat you with 3 singles. I realize that probably fits Quiz to a T, but I am guessing you need a little lower OAV than that.

I just came back to Sim League recently, after taking a hiatus to just focus on HBD and GD. After my experience with HBD, I don't specify a closer any more, with both HBD and SLB. I have found that the best Set-up A / Closer guys are the ones who don't walk guys, and who don't give up home runs. When I look for the best relievers, I limit the HR/9 ratio to 0.15 or lower. Set your max WHIP at 1.05 and max HR/9 at 0.15, and you'll get some pretty good candidates.

I may be in the minority here but I am less concerned with bb/9 and much more concerned with OAV. I often play in good hitters' parks, which may temper my opinion, but I'm more of the mind "make them score with several walks" than "make them score with several singles". BB/9 is easier to control yourself, and you don't run the risk of high pitch counts with relievers. I agree that HR/9 should be near zero. It is imperative to have a guy with IP/9 > 1.0. I typically use dominant modern guys in setup roles and deadball starters with low IP as closers. ERC# is not my variable of choice for closers, as the peripherals are more essential given their situational usage. I typically look for this: OAV# < .200, BB/9# < 3.5, HR/9# < 0.2, IP/G > 1.0 if not 1.25 (and set pitch counts to 15/15 or 15/20).

Posted by tpistolas on 2/20/2019 7:55:00 AM (view original):
I may be in the minority here but I am less concerned with bb/9 and much more concerned with OAV. I often play in good hitters' parks, which may temper my opinion, but I'm more of the mind "make them score with several walks" than "make them score with several singles". BB/9 is easier to control yourself, and you don't run the risk of high pitch counts with relievers. I agree that HR/9 should be near zero. It is imperative to have a guy with IP/9 > 1.0. I typically use dominant modern guys in setup roles and deadball starters with low IP as closers. ERC# is not my variable of choice for closers, as the peripherals are more essential given their situational usage. I typically look for this: OAV# < .200, BB/9# < 3.5, HR/9# < 0.2, IP/G > 1.0 if not 1.25 (and set pitch counts to 15/15 or 15/20).

I respect your opinion because you seem to have original takes and a good understanding of the game.

To your first point, as someone who also plays in hitters parks the vast majority of the time, it's much cheaper to control OAV by paying for range than it is by actually paying for lower OAV. Combined with how cheap it is for lower BB/9 and the fact that the pitcher is the only control you have over walks (compared to pitcher + defense for OAV), focusing on BB/9# and RRF# on defense is more cost effective at preventing runs. Additionally, even though you are allocated fewer pitches to work with, the chances of running through them quickly are lower (both in absolute and relative terms). An RP with a BB/9# of 3.0 is scary to me, and I rarely go above 2 or 2.5.

I agree with Mike, but the walks don't scare me quite as much. A guy like Cy Morgan as a SP works for me, even though he's a tad over 3 BB/9. Perhaps in Petco i may pass on him, but in a neutral or hitters park I won't hesitate to use him...

I think what flies under the radar a lot is how much are you spending on your pitching? Do you have a $/IP in mind? In an open league, I can build a darn good staff for under $27K/IP. Now I might spend north of that for 1 or 2 starters, and a few relievers, but I try to stay under a certain number overall. It is because I want to be able to afford an offense that will produce enough runs. And I don't need to spend 55-60% of my money on pitching. Not even close...

$32k per IP x 1,250 innings =$40k

In an OL i can stay WAY under that. That gives me tons of cap space to put a very good offense out there...and not a whole lot of that is paying for great range...

As far as a closer goes, I don't see the need for a $50K/IP closer. At $255M, money isn't a concern, so get a bunch of them. In any other league I say spend your money elsewhere ...until I get near the higher caps, I can do just fine closing with Bystrom, Roger Mason or Rasmussen. Shop under $35k/ip. 2014 Huston Street is just one of many available. ..

Doc: We agree but also disagree. Pitchers who give up more walks are better picks for pitchers parks like Petco, and worse picks for hitters parks. A baserunner is more likely to score in a hitters park because the guys who come up after him are more likely to get hits on balls in play. In Petco, a walk is less likely to hurt you.

I see your point, yet Morgan has done better for me in a hitters park. Will his low OAV offset his walks enough to be effective? I rarely need low OAV pitchers in Petco. I shop for low WHIP, and I spend less than half of my allocation on pitching...otherwise i struggle to generate enough offense...

I love great pitching and defense, but an anemic offense to go with it is a recipe for a 3rd or 4th place team...especially if everyone else knows how to pitch.

Posted by ozomatli on 2/20/2019 8:58:00 PM (view original):
Doc: We agree but also disagree. Pitchers who give up more walks are better picks for pitchers parks like Petco, and worse picks for hitters parks. A baserunner is more likely to score in a hitters park because the guys who come up after him are more likely to get hits on balls in play. In Petco, a walk is less likely to hurt you.

Walks don’t score runners from 1st that’s for sure. I just figured walks were more important to prevent in pitchers parks, since you got the “-“ singles to help with the higher OAV guys. And vice versa with OAV in hitters parks

You don't need a Closer. Often I'll just designate my best RP's at Setup with low pitch counts, 8th inning. Closer by committee. I only designate a Closer when there's a clearly best pitcher.