Posted by marcstuart on 4/19/2019 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Oh, and as for food. Next time you're in the Bronx (post Yankee game perhaps) shoot over to Arthur Avenue and try Dominicks. Not Italy good, but certainly Bronx good.

Absolutely no argument here. I agree.

Posted by dahsdebater on 4/19/2019 4:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 4/17/2019 11:29:00 AM (view original):
Nah I meant comedies. Just doesn’t feel right to go Breaking Bad, GoT, Lost, Sopranos, then something like Seinfeld or Friends. It’s like going The Godfather, Citizen Kane, Silence of the Lambs, then an Adam Sandler movie. Comedies should have their own list

I don't frankly think that Breaking Bad and GoT resemble each other any more than either resembles Seinfeld, frankly. In fact, I would imagine the characters in Breaking Bad would find the characters in Seinfeld far more relateable than the characters in GoT. Making shows set in a real-world setting entails a very different set of challenges than making shows set in an imagined world, and I'm not talking about logistical considerations of set design. Exploring a real space, trying to find scenarios that feel real and yet far enough on the margins to be interesting, within the world we live in is a very different challenge than trying to build another world that is self-consistent and interesting, consistent with our understanding of basic human nature, and worth the time of adults to keep leaving this world to come back to.

There's an arbitrary delineation between things we call "dramas" and things we call "comedies," but each category is very broad. They are also very overlapped. What, for example, was The A Team? What is the Orville - comedy, drama, or sci-fi? You mentioned Seinfeld and Friends together. While Seinfeld generally only dealt with heavy or emotional subjects flippantly, Friends frankly verged on the genre of melodramatic primetime soap operas(e.g. The Hills, Melrose Place, Dallas, 90210, etc.) much of the time. They're really not at all similar in tone. I don't see why trying to force shows into boxes is ultimately good for the television landscape or a particularly useful exercise.

Really good points all. Thanks. Serious food for thought. That Seinfeld might have more in common with Breaking Bad is a real insight. It might be interesting to think through which fictional characters would most recognize each other in the other's worlds.

Certainly Frank Underwood of the over-rated but still often interesting House of Cards could do pretty well for a while in Westeros.

Posted by dannino on 4/20/2019 3:45:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 4/19/2019 4:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 4/17/2019 11:29:00 AM (view original):
Nah I meant comedies. Just doesn’t feel right to go Breaking Bad, GoT, Lost, Sopranos, then something like Seinfeld or Friends. It’s like going The Godfather, Citizen Kane, Silence of the Lambs, then an Adam Sandler movie. Comedies should have their own list

I don't frankly think that Breaking Bad and GoT resemble each other any more than either resembles Seinfeld, frankly. In fact, I would imagine the characters in Breaking Bad would find the characters in Seinfeld far more relateable than the characters in GoT. Making shows set in a real-world setting entails a very different set of challenges than making shows set in an imagined world, and I'm not talking about logistical considerations of set design. Exploring a real space, trying to find scenarios that feel real and yet far enough on the margins to be interesting, within the world we live in is a very different challenge than trying to build another world that is self-consistent and interesting, consistent with our understanding of basic human nature, and worth the time of adults to keep leaving this world to come back to.

There's an arbitrary delineation between things we call "dramas" and things we call "comedies," but each category is very broad. They are also very overlapped. What, for example, was The A Team? What is the Orville - comedy, drama, or sci-fi? You mentioned Seinfeld and Friends together. While Seinfeld generally only dealt with heavy or emotional subjects flippantly, Friends frankly verged on the genre of melodramatic primetime soap operas(e.g. The Hills, Melrose Place, Dallas, 90210, etc.) much of the time. They're really not at all similar in tone. I don't see why trying to force shows into boxes is ultimately good for the television landscape or a particularly useful exercise.

Excellent point!

I think most people feel comfortable with boxes, especially in entertainment. In addition, the medium of TV has evolved from basically radio with pictures to niche channels on cable. Boxes make things easy for people, We all know the old joke about Hollywood pitches saying things like "It's Die Hard On A Ship." But yes, I agree that genres spill over and that's only natural. Remember the trend of the "Very Special Episode" from sitcoms in the late 70s-80s Like the Diff'rent Strokes episode where Arnold and his buddy run into a pedophile?

I propose these shows as influential and furthering the development of the medium:

-I Love Lucy. Pioneered the modern 3-camera setup prevalent today. Also one of the early examples of the stars of the show becoming involved in the production side.

-Star Trek The Original Series. Moved science fiction from being either for kids or mindless stories about Bug-Eyed Monsters to being intelligent and written for adults. Also one of the first shows to benefit from syndication and lead to an entire franchise that becomes a major cash cow for a network or studio.

-MASH. One of the first shows to demonstrate that you could successfully move a movie to a weekly series. Also was one of the first to really mix drama and comedy.

Seinfeld. A sitcom about nothing that defied the usual sitcom conventions...the characters were basically unlikeable individuals, and the show had the hard rule of "no hugging, no learning." Altered the trajectory that most sitcoms follow today.

-Babylon 5. One of the first successful shows that told an on-going, coherent story that wasn't a soap opera. The true precursor of the modern drama series such as Breaking Bad, The Sopranos. etc. Also pioneered CGI, thus making SFX more affordable.

One other point. Streaming services have changed the way we watch TV, and even the way it is produced. In the beginning, it wasn't uncommon for sitcoms to have 39 episodes in a season very early on. By the 60s, it was roughly 26 episodes. Now, most original shows on premium cable and streaming are 10 episodes long. And the concept of binge watching had taken away to some extent the whole "tune on next week" vibe.

Okay, discuss.

I have been binge watching Star Trek: The Next Generation on Netflix lately. I did not think that much of it when it was new, perhaps I was too loyal to the original series I grew up with as a child.

But it is now to me clearly the very best of Star Trek, though the movies were mostly awful, as Red Letter Media (look them up, NOT remotely either safe for viewing at work or politically correct, but among the very best things on the whole Internet are their reviews of Star Wars and Star Trek movies by a fictional critic named Plinkett. Watch them, but be warned !).

But the show is a gem. Among the most inspiring fictional stuff around.

MASH was amazing for its time, though it did eventually slow down. But it was a very important cultural product,

Babylon 5 was well done, but a bit fascist for me. Have I misunderstood it?

I thought Seinfeld was brilliant when new, but watching it recently, and trying to show my wife why she should like it, I find it drags a bit now, maybe it is we who have reduced attention spans, but it does not make me laugh as much as it once did. Not sure why.

I Love Lucy and the Honeymooners are the basis of everything that came after them, I agree.

Posted by bronxcheer on 4/20/2019 4:10:00 AM (view original):
What came first X-Files,Twin Peaks or Babylon 5?

Twin Peaks was the 1980s, the X-Files and I think B5 were the 90s.

Posted by marcstuart on 4/19/2019 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Oh, and as for food. Next time you're in the Bronx (post Yankee game perhaps) shoot over to Arthur Avenue and try Dominicks. Not Italy good, but certainly Bronx good.

Thank You

Posted by italyprof on 4/20/2019 7:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bronxcheer on 4/20/2019 4:10:00 AM (view original):
What came first X-Files,Twin Peaks or Babylon 5?

Twin Peaks was the 1980s, the X-Files and I think B5 were the 90s.

Twin Peaks ran for two seasons in 1990-91 on ABC, and was followed by a theatrical film called Fire Walk with me. A further season was produced in 2017 for Showtime.

Babylon 5 ran from 1993-98, first in syndication on PTEN (Prime Time Entertainment Network), then on TNT.

X-Files ran from 1993-2002, then from 2016-18, on Fox.

Posted by italyprof on 4/20/2019 7:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dannino on 4/20/2019 3:45:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 4/19/2019 4:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 4/17/2019 11:29:00 AM (view original):
Nah I meant comedies. Just doesn’t feel right to go Breaking Bad, GoT, Lost, Sopranos, then something like Seinfeld or Friends. It’s like going The Godfather, Citizen Kane, Silence of the Lambs, then an Adam Sandler movie. Comedies should have their own list

I don't frankly think that Breaking Bad and GoT resemble each other any more than either resembles Seinfeld, frankly. In fact, I would imagine the characters in Breaking Bad would find the characters in Seinfeld far more relateable than the characters in GoT. Making shows set in a real-world setting entails a very different set of challenges than making shows set in an imagined world, and I'm not talking about logistical considerations of set design. Exploring a real space, trying to find scenarios that feel real and yet far enough on the margins to be interesting, within the world we live in is a very different challenge than trying to build another world that is self-consistent and interesting, consistent with our understanding of basic human nature, and worth the time of adults to keep leaving this world to come back to.

There's an arbitrary delineation between things we call "dramas" and things we call "comedies," but each category is very broad. They are also very overlapped. What, for example, was The A Team? What is the Orville - comedy, drama, or sci-fi? You mentioned Seinfeld and Friends together. While Seinfeld generally only dealt with heavy or emotional subjects flippantly, Friends frankly verged on the genre of melodramatic primetime soap operas(e.g. The Hills, Melrose Place, Dallas, 90210, etc.) much of the time. They're really not at all similar in tone. I don't see why trying to force shows into boxes is ultimately good for the television landscape or a particularly useful exercise.

Excellent point!

I think most people feel comfortable with boxes, especially in entertainment. In addition, the medium of TV has evolved from basically radio with pictures to niche channels on cable. Boxes make things easy for people, We all know the old joke about Hollywood pitches saying things like "It's Die Hard On A Ship." But yes, I agree that genres spill over and that's only natural. Remember the trend of the "Very Special Episode" from sitcoms in the late 70s-80s Like the Diff'rent Strokes episode where Arnold and his buddy run into a pedophile?

I propose these shows as influential and furthering the development of the medium:

-I Love Lucy. Pioneered the modern 3-camera setup prevalent today. Also one of the early examples of the stars of the show becoming involved in the production side.

-Star Trek The Original Series. Moved science fiction from being either for kids or mindless stories about Bug-Eyed Monsters to being intelligent and written for adults. Also one of the first shows to benefit from syndication and lead to an entire franchise that becomes a major cash cow for a network or studio.

-MASH. One of the first shows to demonstrate that you could successfully move a movie to a weekly series. Also was one of the first to really mix drama and comedy.

Seinfeld. A sitcom about nothing that defied the usual sitcom conventions...the characters were basically unlikeable individuals, and the show had the hard rule of "no hugging, no learning." Altered the trajectory that most sitcoms follow today.

-Babylon 5. One of the first successful shows that told an on-going, coherent story that wasn't a soap opera. The true precursor of the modern drama series such as Breaking Bad, The Sopranos. etc. Also pioneered CGI, thus making SFX more affordable.

One other point. Streaming services have changed the way we watch TV, and even the way it is produced. In the beginning, it wasn't uncommon for sitcoms to have 39 episodes in a season very early on. By the 60s, it was roughly 26 episodes. Now, most original shows on premium cable and streaming are 10 episodes long. And the concept of binge watching had taken away to some extent the whole "tune on next week" vibe.

Okay, discuss.

I have been binge watching Star Trek: The Next Generation on Netflix lately. I did not think that much of it when it was new, perhaps I was too loyal to the original series I grew up with as a child.

But it is now to me clearly the very best of Star Trek, though the movies were mostly awful, as Red Letter Media (look them up, NOT remotely either safe for viewing at work or politically correct, but among the very best things on the whole Internet are their reviews of Star Wars and Star Trek movies by a fictional critic named Plinkett. Watch them, but be warned !).

But the show is a gem. Among the most inspiring fictional stuff around.

MASH was amazing for its time, though it did eventually slow down. But it was a very important cultural product,

Babylon 5 was well done, but a bit fascist for me. Have I misunderstood it?

I thought Seinfeld was brilliant when new, but watching it recently, and trying to show my wife why she should like it, I find it drags a bit now, maybe it is we who have reduced attention spans, but it does not make me laugh as much as it once did. Not sure why.

I Love Lucy and the Honeymooners are the basis of everything that came after them, I agree.

My only real beef with TNG is how much GR messed up the first two seasons, with his "no conflict among crewmates" garbage. Add in cast turmoil (like Diana Muldaur as Dr. Pulaski!!!!!) and the 1988 Writer's Strike, and it took until season 3, when Paramount demoted Roddenberry to really hit its stride. By the way, that first season episode Code Of Honor, widely considered to be one of the worst in any incarnation of Trek, was written by Katharyn Powers. She later recycled the story for a first season episode of Stargate SG-1 called Emancipation, widely considered to be one of the worst episodes in the Gateverse! However, she was later the story editor on SG-1 for a couple of seasons.

As far as B5 being fascist, you're not missing it. Joe Strazcynski meant for it to be a cautionary tale. The whole arc with President Clarke and the Earth Civil War is all about this trope.

And Seinfeld in general holds up well, but I agree in some spots it seems somewhat dated. Specifically, there's a discussion between Jerry and Elaine about the etiquette of offering condolences while walking down the street on a cell phone.

If what a show meant to the big picture of TV history, then honestly, 90210 has to get credit as massively influential.

Running brand new episodes during summer hiatus was practically unheard of and considered a risky, desperate move.
The success of it led to entire new ways to watch shows that previously would have been unthinkable. It tore down the box.

What's next. "Party of Five?

Ya y’all are right. I don’t really watch TV, but whenever I have to crash at a friend’s place, they’re parents are usually watching some trash “comedy” that do a bunch of cringy **** for cheap laughs. Mike and Molly where it's just a bunch of eating/fat jokes. With one token black dude who’s supposed to be the wise guy or something, even though he’s a midget and has no experience with women.

Then there’s 2 and a half men zzzzzzzzzzzz

Big Bang Theory, if y’all ever watch this dumb show designed to make dumb people feel smart, watch it on YT with the laughtrack removed. It’s the most awkward thing ever.

Also bonus points where one of my ex’s best friends watched that show. She’d wait until the laugh track hit, then start laughing. Like there was a whole *** delay after the joke while she either processed it in her brain, or just was lost and someone else had to confirm to her that it was supposed to be a joke.

So I guess the idea of a live-action comedy being good is foreign to me. With the exception of It’s Always Sunny.

yer like 12 and a curmudgeon!

& you like baseball



i like your style young man

"Seinfeld. A sitcom about nothing that defied the usual sitcom conventions...the characters were basically unlikeable individuals, and the show had the hard rule of "no hugging, no learning." Altered the trajectory that most sitcoms follow today."

I've never understood the idea that Seinfeld was a unique "show about nothing". Was "Friends" a show about something in a meaningful way? They were both about groups of single friends in New York, with comedic characters getting in different comedic situations from week to week. Sure, the "Friends" gang was mostly pretty and the Seinfeld gang was not. Both are largely set in a character's apartment. Friends has a lot of coffeeshop scenes, Seinfeld has diner scenes. It seems like a pretty similar formula. Seinfeld did come first, maybe Friends was following its formula to an extent? Maybe that is what was meant by "altered the trajectory that most sitcoms follow today." But I always get the sense people see Seinfeld as wholly unique from most others.

seinfeld was a show about getting something for nothing

every episode someone is bustin their butt to clinch a deal

the rest of them laugh because its not their gig

what friends are for

since everyone is really getting analytical here is my take on seinfeld..i say was that it catered to the happily self absorbed.
the characters in seinfeld were all variations on the same theme and they fed off of each other's neurotic energy in self affirmation of their neurotic egotism....we are all like that....thats why we related to it...they created a synergy.....they laughed at others and we laughed with them.
the friends characters were actually interested in each other.....they were a little college dorm family...they are not at all similar shows in my opinion...they were loveable clowns looking for teddy bears to love.......
friends was just 3's company with more people.
seinfeld was a new trajectory.
if you want to see a radically new type of seinfeld that can go really dark check out search party..
google it and see if it might not interest you......2nd season on its way.

some current shows i watch and recommend

1. the blacklist
2. killing eve
3. santa clarita diet
4. the orville
5. young sheldon
6. animal kingdom
7. the good place
8. cukoo
9. god friended me - so sue me
10. search party
11. wrecked
12. gotham