Posted by thunder1008 on 5/29/2019 10:37:00 PM (view original):
Future Hall of Famers

Slam dunks -- Jeter, Ichiro, Pujols, Beltran, Beltre, Cabrera, Kershaw, Trout, Verlander, Utley

Likely -- Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Larry Walker, K-Rod, Ortiz, Mauer

Maybe -- A-Rod, Rollins, Votto, Torii Hunter, Billy Wagner, Minnie Minoso, Dick Allen, Cano, Molina

Distant Horizon -- Sale, Stanton, Harper, Bumgarner, Machada, Altuve, Freeman, Scherzer

I love CC but, as someone said earlier in this thread, he's Hall of Very Good, not Hall of Fame. Low end maybe, more like unlikely. And in 2027, after the baseball biopic Hustle earns five Oscar nominations, Pete Rose rides a groundswell of popular support into the HOF. I mean, c'mon -- 4,256.

My 0.02...

I'm curious - how do you have ARod as a maybe, but Bonds and Ortiz as likely? All have strong PED links, and ARod was definitely better than Ortiz offensively and defensively. He had more defensive value than Bonds, though Bonds was better at the plate.

Posted by Got_Worms on 5/30/2019 1:53:00 AM (view original):
The real issue I have with Baines election is he was the 6th best player on a 6 player ballot. If Will Clark or Albert Belle got elected people would not be up in arms!

The biggest problem with Baines as how fishy it looked. A big chunk of the electorate had ties to him (Alomar, LaRussa, Gillick, Reinsdorf), and I believe Reinsdorf has been a big and powerful voice for Baines' induction in the past. If it's not shady, it at least gives the strong impression that if you get a group of your buddies and past colleagues on the committee, you'll get in regardless of your merit.

Posted by dahsdebater on 5/30/2019 1:25:00 PM (view original):
I don't see Beltran or Verlander as locks either... In fact, I really don't think Beltran deserves to go in. If he does, it's basically entirely on the strength of his 2004 playoff performance. I must admit, I will likely never forget that 2004 Beltan vs. Pujols NLCS. Extremely exciting stuff. But at the end of the day, he wasn't a HOF caliber player. I'd take Jim Edmonds over him both offensively and defensively.

Verlander is a lock but I agree with you about Beltran.

I think Verlander should get in easily. I doubt Utley even gets close. Beltran should not be in either. But if Harold Baines is in, both Utley and Beltran were better, so on that basis, maybe they should get in. AROD, Bonds and Clemens should be in. regardless of how you feel about PEDs, all 3 probably would have gotten in if they had never touched PEDs. Not sure about Ortiz, but that could be my Red Sox hate speaking. I guess if Edgar Martinez is in, Ortiz should be in too. Not sure about Larry Walker either. His career Coors numbers were great, but his numbers away from Coors were just good.
I don't think Hunter, Rollins, or Cano belong. Molina is a possibility. He was great defensively ,and had some nice offensive seasons too.
Not sure about Minoso or Allen... have to look at their careers a bit more.

Posted by Jtpsops on 5/30/2019 2:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by thunder1008 on 5/29/2019 10:37:00 PM (view original):
Future Hall of Famers

Slam dunks -- Jeter, Ichiro, Pujols, Beltran, Beltre, Cabrera, Kershaw, Trout, Verlander, Utley

Likely -- Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Larry Walker, K-Rod, Ortiz, Mauer

Maybe -- A-Rod, Rollins, Votto, Torii Hunter, Billy Wagner, Minnie Minoso, Dick Allen, Cano, Molina

Distant Horizon -- Sale, Stanton, Harper, Bumgarner, Machada, Altuve, Freeman, Scherzer

I love CC but, as someone said earlier in this thread, he's Hall of Very Good, not Hall of Fame. Low end maybe, more like unlikely. And in 2027, after the baseball biopic Hustle earns five Oscar nominations, Pete Rose rides a groundswell of popular support into the HOF. I mean, c'mon -- 4,256.

My 0.02...

I'm curious - how do you have ARod as a maybe, but Bonds and Ortiz as likely? All have strong PED links, and ARod was definitely better than Ortiz offensively and defensively. He had more defensive value than Bonds, though Bonds was better at the plate.

I doubt if players linked to PED's will continue to be treated as a single group. Some will get in and some won't, though every juicer who gets in will make it a little easier for others to follow. Bonds and Clemens are the closest to being voted in because their achievements came before there was "a process." They never were actually suspended or failed a drug test, even if everyone "knows" they used, and that means something to HOF voters. I also think most HOF voters believe they would have put up numbers worthy of inclusion with or without benefit of the needle, while McGwire and Sosa were essentially bulked up sluggers.

Ortiz failed only an anonymous, confidential testing process that MLB's own Commissioner disavowed as meaningless, and the big surge for Edgar Martinez helps his case as a DH. A-Rod and others actually failed drug tests and/or were suspended for PED use. A-Rod is also massively unpopular with voters (not that Bonds and Clemens are beloved) and will never benefit from a "let him in" groundswell of support.

Finally, the continued influx of Sabermetricians into the ranks of HOF voters will continue to shift the process to more objective, numbers-based criteria rather than the subjective opinion that has been a barrier to the PED crowd.

Again, just my 0.02...

Problem for Bonds and Clemens is they're not gonna be on the writer ballot for much longer, and seem unlikely to get to 75% in the few years they have left. Then they're gonna have to rely on the veteran's committee who from what I gather really look down on the juicers.

Also I don't think he'll ever get in but I'm never letting go of my Andruw Jones for HOF agenda.

Played a historically great CF in his prime and hit over 400 HRs. Sabermetric types love him so maybe he'll eventually get a push. I remember reading a piece on BP about how Leo Mazzone's pitcher whisperer rep with the Braves was largely due to Andruw single-handedly lowering Braves' pitchers ERA by getting to a ridiculous number of balls in the outfield.

Agree that they have to start gaining votes faster than they have been, but the trend has been their friend and sometimes the breakthroughs happen fast. Wouldn't be surprised to see them go in w/ Jeter next year or Schilling in `21.

The Hall could do worse than Andruw Jones, 06gsp --

Pros. 10 consecutive Gold Gloves combined w/ 434 HR's, runner-up MVP, peak dominance, 3rd best WAR from 1998-2007, trailing only Bonds & A-Rod
Cons. .254 BA, <2,000 hits, debacle in LA, domestic violence arrest, playing in the shadow of Chipper & a rotation that gets most of the credit for the Braves dynasty

Send the Hall a video clip of one of his catches. There was one against the Astros, I think, that was the equal of anything I ever saw Willie Mays or Jim Edmonds do. It was how a HOF'er plays CF.

Talking about this one?

Posted by d_rock97 on 5/31/2019 2:02:00 AM (view original):
Talking about this one?

I remember that, but this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ZlGme4Eh8

Edmonds has the greatest catch in the history of the game. Nothing Jones did matches it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56f4xH4ZoEM

Posted by thunder1008 on 5/31/2019 2:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 5/31/2019 2:02:00 AM (view original):
Talking about this one?

I remember that, but this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ZlGme4Eh8

I miss Skip Carey's voice!

Posted by d_rock97 on 5/31/2019 2:02:00 AM (view original):
Talking about this one?

Bagwell had a great swing!

Posted by Jtpsops on 5/31/2019 9:57:00 AM (view original):
Edmonds has the greatest catch in the history of the game. Nothing Jones did matches it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56f4xH4ZoEM

Unlike Mays & Jones didn't have to catch & throw but hard to argue in the catch only category. Have no idea how you crash into a wall at full speed, turn around and throw the ball accurately almost 400 feet.

Since we’re talking catches now. As a full-time CFer growing up who would only move willingly to Pitcher, I think I have a pretty good idea on some of the best catches ever and this is one of my favorites that I’d like to put in a top 5