Tandems and Pitch Counts Topic

I haven't used Tandem starters too often, but I've arrived at a place where it makes the most sense in one league.

In a recent 11-3 win, I can't figure out how the "B" pitcher was used. Since I know Sparky only does what we tell him, I just need to figure out what I told him wrong.

https://www.whatifsports.com/slb/Boxscore.aspx?gid=32372125&pid=1&pbp=0&tf=10

My Tandem A starter threw 62 pitches in 5 innings and left with an 11-0 lead. He's set at 55 TPC/75 MPC/ 2 Call bullpen, so that looked just right to me.

My Tandem B pitcher entered to start the 6th. He's set at 40 TPC/50 MPC/2 Call bullpen. He faced 5 batters, gave up 2 runs, threw 20 pitches, and was replaced by the Mopup. It was 11-2 at that point and 2 outs in the 6th. He was nowhere near the 40 TPC and the game was already in hand.

Does Sparky go to the Mopup as early as possible? Would a Call Bullpen setting of 1 make a difference? The frustration is that another pitcher later had to work 2 innings that the Tandem B likely could have handled some or all of.

Thanks for the guidance.
6/18/2019 6:47 PM
I love tandems, and I have used them quite a bit, and I think you have come very close to naming the problem here. I would frankly consider it something of a glitch. Sparky's programming on the back ends of tandems seems more similar to his usage of long relievers than his usage of starters. I consider the position of Tandem xB to be basically just a forced long reliever. This means that you'll see several weird things. In non-competitive games, tandems will get pulled earlier than you would expect for mopups or Long Bs. In competitive games, tandems will sometimes get pulled well before they reach their TPC for a PH. If they put two guys on in the 7th in a close game, they tend to get pulled, even if they're not close to pitch count. All of that is what you would expect to happen to a reliever. In general, Sparky would leave starters in in those spots. I have found that no matter how high I set their pitch counts, it's hard to get the back half of a tandem to average more than 3 innings/game. You almost have to put the higher-volume guy in the A slot. If I had programmed it, I would have treated tandem Bs more like a true starter, i.e. they're generally going to at least approach their pitch counts unless they're being absolutely shelled. Even so, I still like the position. You just have to be aware of what to expect. They can still rack up wins, if you're into that sort of thing.
6/18/2019 7:01 PM
With a Call Bullpen of anything above 1, you risk your pitcher not throwing as many pitches as you intend them to. This is not unique to Tandems. Given the score, the mopup is a logical choice.
6/18/2019 11:45 PM
If you want any starting pitcher role, including Tandem B, to reach their pitch count, set Call Bullpen to 1, uncheck their pinch-hit box, and set your relievers' Inning Available to a late inning (probably 7th or later, though I use 8th by default and sometimes 9th).

Looks like your guy was replaced in the 6th inning. If every relief pitcher was set at Inning Available 7th or later then he stays in the game no matter how bad he's pitching, until reaching his pitch count, because no other pitcher is "available" until the next inning. Your settings gave Sparky a choice, and he "chose" based on pre-determined logic that score and call bullpen rating dictated a change. Manipulate the settings so Sparky doesn't have a choice and that won't happen.
6/19/2019 12:09 AM
I appreciate the feedback. Thank you.
6/19/2019 12:36 AM
Good call, Sparky saved your Tandem B for games that matter. Put your mopup on rest if you don't need him any more.
6/19/2019 9:15 AM
It's still very early in the season and I've got some fatigue to manage. So I'm just trying to navigate this for a while and see how it shapes up for the season. It's very helpful to get this added perspective, and I'll be fine-tuning some settings here to see what transpires.
6/19/2019 12:19 PM
Skunk206 hit it on the head. Sparky follows your settings by default. Give him as few chances as possible to deviate. I would definitely set most of your relievers to 7th inning or later.

What I generally see is the "A" starter stays in too long, the "B" doesn't get fully used, no matter how well my settings. FWIW

Tandems are a good break from the norm. I had '89 Garrelts get 29 wins as a "B"! It was in a progressive, which in some instances is a great way to compensate for a lack of quality starters. I have good luck starting a lefty, then the "B" is a righty, or vice versa...
6/19/2019 6:51 PM (edited)
Yeah, I love tandems, but I will sometimes "plan" for the B guy to get pulled early once in a while. Maybe a guy who would only have 35-40 pitches per game available if you did the math (total pitches available / planned games) can be set to 40 TPC/45 MPC and survive because he has an occasional 30 pitch game. Trying to force your B guy to throw 60 pitches a game is sometimes like beating your head against the wall.
6/21/2019 9:48 AM
Posted by rbow923 on 6/19/2019 9:16:00 AM (view original):
Good call, Sparky saved your Tandem B for games that matter. Put your mopup on rest if you don't need him any more.
I don't agree with this at all. I think Sparky should be able to treat tandem starters like starters without needing to put pull settings at 1.

I typically only draft about 40 or 50 innings of mopups, if that. Not that many games are blowouts. I don't want to have to rest my mopup because if it's an 8-run game in the 9th I want him to be available. But I also don't want him coming in for my starter when my starter is 30+ pitches away from his pitch count. I don't think it's right that I should have to put his pull setting at 1 to avoid that, because if he is getting shelled I may want him to be pulled.

I recognize that others here disagree with me, but I remain convinced that starters should be treated similarly regardless of which starting role they are filling. And in the circumstances of the OP, I think his tandem B should presumably be remaining in this game unless his pull setting is a 4 or a 5. Or at least, that's how I would want it to work with my team. As it is, the pull settings from 3-5 are barely differentiable for tandem Bs. I think the current programming reduces our control of how the guy will be used, which is clearly not to our advantage (if we know what we're doing).
6/21/2019 12:01 PM
Not to go off topic, but I don't understand the concept of resting a mopup. They are there to take up space. It doesn't matter if they're at 100% of 0%. Poor 2018 Tommy Milone gets his arm blown off on all of my teams.
6/21/2019 1:53 PM
mopups with leads

are there to mop, not to lay on the floor
6/21/2019 1:57 PM
a bit off topic, but I set my mop up to come in only when losing. I've seen too many games where the mop tips over the bucket in a game that otherwise should have been won. Since I set the mop up to come in when games are all but lost anyhow, my pull setting is at 1 so it's hard to get him out of there until his max pitch count is met.
6/21/2019 2:15 PM
The pull setting at 2 versus 1 likely had very little to do with this particular pitching change. It was the availability of the mop-up and the game score which were primarily responsible. It's very easy to adjust other settings to avoid this situation entirely, without even touching the pull setting (or relying upon it).
6/21/2019 3:50 PM
Tandems and Pitch Counts Topic

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