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8/18/2019 7:12 PM
Posted by tangplay on 8/18/2019 5:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by DougOut on 8/18/2019 3:50:00 PM (view original):
YOU ARE A LIAR

You lost on fake healthcare. You won on LIES.

Republicans didn't write the laws that allow them in. YOU DID.

WE LISTENED TO YOU and you lied and now Americans are getting our *** kicked.

The stupid-*** OBAMA law encouraged them to come up here. THE DREAMERS!

ALL THAT BLOOD and misery and rape and murder and starvation IS ON YOUR HANDS!

OWN UP TO IT! YOU'RE NOT THAT STUPID ARE YOU? ARE YOU?

Apologize to ME and NON SPORTS and AMERICA and THE WORLD.

YOU KILLED BABIES! AND YOU LOVE IT! YOU SUPPORT ABORTION. MURDER! ADMIT IT!

But I don't. I don't wanna kill anything or anybody. And I'm not even MENNONITE.

"Fake Healthcare" perfectly describes the Republican policy, lol.


Asylum is legal. Always has been.
True.

The problem is the route chosen by the person seeking refugee status. Here is Article 31 from the 1951 UN Convention that established international law - UNHCR - Convention and Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees. I have added the underlining.

Article 31 Refugees unlawfully in the country of refugee 1.The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence. 2.The Contracting States shall not apply to the movements of such refugees restrictions other than those which are necessary and such restrictions shall only be applied until their status in the country is regularized or they obtain admission into another country. The Contracting States shall allow such refugees a reasonable period and all the necessary facilities to obtain admission into another country.
8/18/2019 7:52 PM
"coming directly" is pretty vague

could be temporal

could be political geography -- so if two states distant an air traveler is ok but a train traveler not

what does "coming directly" mean
8/18/2019 8:37 PM
Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/18/2019 7:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 8/18/2019 5:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by DougOut on 8/18/2019 3:50:00 PM (view original):
YOU ARE A LIAR

You lost on fake healthcare. You won on LIES.

Republicans didn't write the laws that allow them in. YOU DID.

WE LISTENED TO YOU and you lied and now Americans are getting our *** kicked.

The stupid-*** OBAMA law encouraged them to come up here. THE DREAMERS!

ALL THAT BLOOD and misery and rape and murder and starvation IS ON YOUR HANDS!

OWN UP TO IT! YOU'RE NOT THAT STUPID ARE YOU? ARE YOU?

Apologize to ME and NON SPORTS and AMERICA and THE WORLD.

YOU KILLED BABIES! AND YOU LOVE IT! YOU SUPPORT ABORTION. MURDER! ADMIT IT!

But I don't. I don't wanna kill anything or anybody. And I'm not even MENNONITE.

"Fake Healthcare" perfectly describes the Republican policy, lol.


Asylum is legal. Always has been.
True.

The problem is the route chosen by the person seeking refugee status. Here is Article 31 from the 1951 UN Convention that established international law - UNHCR - Convention and Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees. I have added the underlining.

Article 31 Refugees unlawfully in the country of refugee 1.The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence. 2.The Contracting States shall not apply to the movements of such refugees restrictions other than those which are necessary and such restrictions shall only be applied until their status in the country is regularized or they obtain admission into another country. The Contracting States shall allow such refugees a reasonable period and all the necessary facilities to obtain admission into another country.
Are they not coming directly from their home country?

BTW, I personally feel that our current policy violates "The Contracting States shall not apply to the movements of such refugees restrictions other than those which are necessary," and "The Contracting States shall allow such refugees a reasonable period and all the necessary facilities to obtain admission into another country."
8/18/2019 8:45 PM
Posted by bagchucker on 8/18/2019 8:38:00 PM (view original):
"coming directly" is pretty vague

could be temporal

could be political geography -- so if two states distant an air traveler is ok but a train traveler not

what does "coming directly" mean
Well, I'm not sure if you and tang are reading me correctly. I am not arguing in favor of denying asylum, I am only highlighting the legal sticking point.

I agree that it is vague. Oftentimes, I believe diplomatic language is intentionally vague to allow for endless maneuvering after the treaty has been signed.
8/18/2019 9:44 PM
Posted by tangplay on 8/18/2019 8:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/18/2019 7:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 8/18/2019 5:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by DougOut on 8/18/2019 3:50:00 PM (view original):
YOU ARE A LIAR

You lost on fake healthcare. You won on LIES.

Republicans didn't write the laws that allow them in. YOU DID.

WE LISTENED TO YOU and you lied and now Americans are getting our *** kicked.

The stupid-*** OBAMA law encouraged them to come up here. THE DREAMERS!

ALL THAT BLOOD and misery and rape and murder and starvation IS ON YOUR HANDS!

OWN UP TO IT! YOU'RE NOT THAT STUPID ARE YOU? ARE YOU?

Apologize to ME and NON SPORTS and AMERICA and THE WORLD.

YOU KILLED BABIES! AND YOU LOVE IT! YOU SUPPORT ABORTION. MURDER! ADMIT IT!

But I don't. I don't wanna kill anything or anybody. And I'm not even MENNONITE.

"Fake Healthcare" perfectly describes the Republican policy, lol.


Asylum is legal. Always has been.
True.

The problem is the route chosen by the person seeking refugee status. Here is Article 31 from the 1951 UN Convention that established international law - UNHCR - Convention and Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees. I have added the underlining.

Article 31 Refugees unlawfully in the country of refugee 1.The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence. 2.The Contracting States shall not apply to the movements of such refugees restrictions other than those which are necessary and such restrictions shall only be applied until their status in the country is regularized or they obtain admission into another country. The Contracting States shall allow such refugees a reasonable period and all the necessary facilities to obtain admission into another country.
Are they not coming directly from their home country?

BTW, I personally feel that our current policy violates "The Contracting States shall not apply to the movements of such refugees restrictions other than those which are necessary," and "The Contracting States shall allow such refugees a reasonable period and all the necessary facilities to obtain admission into another country."
Who knows to your first line. Does going through another country nullify directness? The treaty does not define the adverb "directly."

The second - "such refugees" only applies to those that meet the criteria in sub-section 1, i.e., those that are "coming directly from," leading us around in a circle.
8/18/2019 9:53 PM
So we can only take Cubans, Mexicans, Canadians, and Pacific Islanders?
8/19/2019 2:44 AM
Posted by bronxcheer on 8/19/2019 2:44:00 AM (view original):
So we can only take Cubans, Mexicans, Canadians, and Pacific Islanders?
lol.

I'm not a lawyer (thank God) but I think the argument is parallel to the Dublin Regulation for the EU. To prevent asylum seekers from shopping around, they are required to apply for asylum in the first country they step foot into. The Swiss (although they are not members) are probably the ones who came up with this, being safely landlocked and "protected" from African and Middle Eastern population movements.

I believe, and again I am not a lawyer, that by not requesting refugee status in the first country, the person's actions fall under the definition for economic migration, which is not a protected class under the 1951 protocol.
8/19/2019 7:23 AM (edited)
So people in Honduras and El Salvador are virtually required to apply for asylum in Guatemala? Lol
8/19/2019 8:42 AM
Posted by tangplay on 8/19/2019 8:42:00 AM (view original):
So people in Honduras and El Salvador are virtually required to apply for asylum in Guatemala? Lol
I don't know. If Guatemala is deemed a safe country and they don't want to hazard a water crossing (which would technically make their first country any country with a coastline,) maybe. International law is usually written to protect the interests of the Great Powers, not the little guys.
8/19/2019 8:51 AM
Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/19/2019 8:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 8/19/2019 8:42:00 AM (view original):
So people in Honduras and El Salvador are virtually required to apply for asylum in Guatemala? Lol
I don't know. If Guatemala is deemed a safe country and they don't want to hazard a water crossing (which would technically make their first country any country with a coastline,) maybe. International law is usually written to protect the interests of the Great Powers, not the little guys.
Guatemala is anything but a safe country.

If that's how the rule is intended, then the rule has very little applicability.
8/19/2019 11:50 AM
The US was just deemed a dangerous country by Amnesty International. I think the illegals should stay where they are.
8/19/2019 4:14 PM
Posted by cccp1014 on 8/19/2019 4:14:00 PM (view original):
The US was just deemed a dangerous country by Amnesty International. I think the illegals should stay where they are.
That is so simple and logical.
8/19/2019 4:29 PM
Yeah, #99 in murder rate is way worse than #1, 2, and 7.

(US, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, respectively)

913 murders per million people in Honduras!
8/19/2019 5:09 PM
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