The Trump License to Kill Topic

Posted by rsp777 on 8/6/2019 11:30:00 AM (view original):
Welcome to Tuesday...
lol, no ****
8/6/2019 11:45 AM
Posted by tangplay on 8/6/2019 10:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/6/2019 12:44:00 AM (view original):
Every time we have a multiple shooting we have to deal with this absurd period of the political cycle being dominated by what frankly remains a very minor issue. Don't get me wrong, I've never been opposed to some basic gun control, starting with a reasonable assault weapons ban. But it's not the kind of priority that people try to make it. This is probably the most egregious example right now of the media controlling political priorities and pushing them away from more significant problems.

The reality is that mass murders are still only a small fraction of homicides in the United States. And murders lag comfortably behind auto accidents and suicides among causes of death - to say nothing of heart attack, stroke, and cancer. Similarly, how many people do you think died in school shootings in the past year? I'll give you a hint - you can count them on one hand. How much money has been spent nationally protesting against school violence, defending against it, etc. Close to 3000 school-age and younger children die each year in auto accidents. 350 drown. What do you think is a better allocation of resources - a few million for an informational campaign on the risk of drowning in backyard pools, or billions nationwide to combat school shootings? A 1% drop in drownings would have saved more lives this year than a 75% reduction in school shootings. A 1% drop in drunk driving - about 500 minor fatalities per year IIRC - would blow away stopping all the school shootings.

It's not that it's not a tragedy. I'm not trying to argue that. I am trying to argue that the media presentation of mass murders and school shootings clouds the relative significance of such events as a real threat to the American people. There is much lower-hanging fruit if we want to save some lives.
I completely agree dahs... At the same time, I don't necessarily see a tradeoff between those policies. And Republicans have been blocking other gun reform to stop suicides, such as Red Flag laws.
I'm not trying to make a "Republicans are better" argument. What I am suggesting is that the money and effort being directed towards gun control could probably be better spent. Again, I'd be in favor of an assault weapons ban, but at the same time skeptical of its effectiveness.

I guess tangentially I'm also suggesting that the media are having a distinctly negative social impact here. I know it's slightly off-topic, but closely related, and I'm going to refer back to school shootings here. I haven't seen anybody in the media pointing out that only 4 people died in school shootings during the 2017-18 school year. Not even Fox News. We have kids saying - on TV and in their homes - that they don't feel safe going to school.

In an average year, 450 kids in the United States are murdered by their own parents. About 3000 minor children die in car accidents. Another 8000-10000 die in accidents in the home. Even in the worst school shooting year ever, school is the safest place for our kids to be, statistically-speaking. Much safer than home. Much safer than the commute. Given the importance of school, and of a learning environment that feels safe and comfortable (plenty of research backs this up) I think it's clear that the negative impact of making millions of kids afraid to be at school is the biggest negative impact here. And it's based on an obvious deception generated and perpetuated by the media - that school is a dangerous place to be. It's easy for anybody with an internet connection and 15 minutes to convince themself that school is, in fact, statistically very safe. But not a lot of students and parents are actually fact-checking the media.
8/6/2019 12:12 PM
Sorry, that should have said 2018-2019 school year.
8/6/2019 12:53 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/6/2019 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 8/6/2019 10:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/6/2019 12:44:00 AM (view original):
Every time we have a multiple shooting we have to deal with this absurd period of the political cycle being dominated by what frankly remains a very minor issue. Don't get me wrong, I've never been opposed to some basic gun control, starting with a reasonable assault weapons ban. But it's not the kind of priority that people try to make it. This is probably the most egregious example right now of the media controlling political priorities and pushing them away from more significant problems.

The reality is that mass murders are still only a small fraction of homicides in the United States. And murders lag comfortably behind auto accidents and suicides among causes of death - to say nothing of heart attack, stroke, and cancer. Similarly, how many people do you think died in school shootings in the past year? I'll give you a hint - you can count them on one hand. How much money has been spent nationally protesting against school violence, defending against it, etc. Close to 3000 school-age and younger children die each year in auto accidents. 350 drown. What do you think is a better allocation of resources - a few million for an informational campaign on the risk of drowning in backyard pools, or billions nationwide to combat school shootings? A 1% drop in drownings would have saved more lives this year than a 75% reduction in school shootings. A 1% drop in drunk driving - about 500 minor fatalities per year IIRC - would blow away stopping all the school shootings.

It's not that it's not a tragedy. I'm not trying to argue that. I am trying to argue that the media presentation of mass murders and school shootings clouds the relative significance of such events as a real threat to the American people. There is much lower-hanging fruit if we want to save some lives.
I completely agree dahs... At the same time, I don't necessarily see a tradeoff between those policies. And Republicans have been blocking other gun reform to stop suicides, such as Red Flag laws.
I'm not trying to make a "Republicans are better" argument. What I am suggesting is that the money and effort being directed towards gun control could probably be better spent. Again, I'd be in favor of an assault weapons ban, but at the same time skeptical of its effectiveness.

I guess tangentially I'm also suggesting that the media are having a distinctly negative social impact here. I know it's slightly off-topic, but closely related, and I'm going to refer back to school shootings here. I haven't seen anybody in the media pointing out that only 4 people died in school shootings during the 2017-18 school year. Not even Fox News. We have kids saying - on TV and in their homes - that they don't feel safe going to school.

In an average year, 450 kids in the United States are murdered by their own parents. About 3000 minor children die in car accidents. Another 8000-10000 die in accidents in the home. Even in the worst school shooting year ever, school is the safest place for our kids to be, statistically-speaking. Much safer than home. Much safer than the commute. Given the importance of school, and of a learning environment that feels safe and comfortable (plenty of research backs this up) I think it's clear that the negative impact of making millions of kids afraid to be at school is the biggest negative impact here. And it's based on an obvious deception generated and perpetuated by the media - that school is a dangerous place to be. It's easy for anybody with an internet connection and 15 minutes to convince themself that school is, in fact, statistically very safe. But not a lot of students and parents are actually fact-checking the media.
Dahs. This is all very true. And I also basically agree with your prioritization of $$ argument. But those aren't the ONLY criteria. And the media alone is not responsible for our culture. Neither the culture of sensationalism, nor violence. THEY capitalize on it for the all American principle of Capitalistic $$$!

But your logical argument is not the whole picture. The reality is that in PUBLIC places, we are all vulnerable to senseless violence, some of which is racially driven random attacks nowadays. It IS important that our schools actually be safe and less vulnerable to random violence than a public marketplace/area. It's our KIDS and OUR (so-called) valued teachers sanctuary for learning. Yes, emotionality and sensationalism has elevated that realm beyond the numbers. So F'ing what? The worst thing about it is what you have pointed out about the violence invading the schools to the point that our KIDS don't feel safe anymore. That's horrid! And to the point that sensationalism played in that, I agree with you that it is reprehensible.

You also kind of miss another point. A whole group of shoppers were targeted because of their race and attacked at random with a military type assault weapon in a public space in the United States of America-----and due to a rather sick ideologically divide, half the Country (including You?) would prefer to not face the obvious, and instead talk about ANYTHING other than the reality that we have assault weapons IN the hands of angry misguided racist notjobs RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW, in the good ol USA............ those grieving families in one of the safest American large cities, (2.5 Million residents, 85% latino!---crossing back and forth across the border into and out of Mexico weekly), THOSE families, they don't give a flying F about your "perceived" violence threat compared to the statistical reality. There wasn't anything perceptual about that racist attack, it was quite real to them.

And the fact is that that one party, the party with the R, the RACIST defending/harboring party has Stood SQUARELY in the way of senseable assault weapon Laws for decades. And when the OTHER party managed to get a weak assault weapons ban into law, those same Racist defending "R's" allowed it to lapse, PURPOSELY!

There no longer is ANY legitimate defense of the "R" party as an honorable American Institution. the G.O.P. is no longer grand, it is devoid of basic American values.
8/6/2019 12:58 PM
those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
egg heads crack.
home is where the heart is.
since the usa has the most guns why dont we have the least killings.

know your rights.
8/6/2019 1:18 PM
personally and i do respect opposing views on this subject i have always been 101% behind the patriot act since day one
and i still am 102%.
we need to apply it to domestic terrorism.
mucho pronto....mucho dinero if neccesito.
the dayton shooter was suspended from high school for having a murder list and a rape list.
imo that was more then significant enough to ban him from owning or purchasing a gun.
thats my opinion.

btw - am i a radical or a leftist or a righty.......an independent......i dont know.....i dont label myself.
i take on each issue individually.
8/6/2019 1:24 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/6/2019 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 8/6/2019 10:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/6/2019 12:44:00 AM (view original):
Every time we have a multiple shooting we have to deal with this absurd period of the political cycle being dominated by what frankly remains a very minor issue. Don't get me wrong, I've never been opposed to some basic gun control, starting with a reasonable assault weapons ban. But it's not the kind of priority that people try to make it. This is probably the most egregious example right now of the media controlling political priorities and pushing them away from more significant problems.

The reality is that mass murders are still only a small fraction of homicides in the United States. And murders lag comfortably behind auto accidents and suicides among causes of death - to say nothing of heart attack, stroke, and cancer. Similarly, how many people do you think died in school shootings in the past year? I'll give you a hint - you can count them on one hand. How much money has been spent nationally protesting against school violence, defending against it, etc. Close to 3000 school-age and younger children die each year in auto accidents. 350 drown. What do you think is a better allocation of resources - a few million for an informational campaign on the risk of drowning in backyard pools, or billions nationwide to combat school shootings? A 1% drop in drownings would have saved more lives this year than a 75% reduction in school shootings. A 1% drop in drunk driving - about 500 minor fatalities per year IIRC - would blow away stopping all the school shootings.

It's not that it's not a tragedy. I'm not trying to argue that. I am trying to argue that the media presentation of mass murders and school shootings clouds the relative significance of such events as a real threat to the American people. There is much lower-hanging fruit if we want to save some lives.
I completely agree dahs... At the same time, I don't necessarily see a tradeoff between those policies. And Republicans have been blocking other gun reform to stop suicides, such as Red Flag laws.
I'm not trying to make a "Republicans are better" argument. What I am suggesting is that the money and effort being directed towards gun control could probably be better spent. Again, I'd be in favor of an assault weapons ban, but at the same time skeptical of its effectiveness.

I guess tangentially I'm also suggesting that the media are having a distinctly negative social impact here. I know it's slightly off-topic, but closely related, and I'm going to refer back to school shootings here. I haven't seen anybody in the media pointing out that only 4 people died in school shootings during the 2017-18 school year. Not even Fox News. We have kids saying - on TV and in their homes - that they don't feel safe going to school.

In an average year, 450 kids in the United States are murdered by their own parents. About 3000 minor children die in car accidents. Another 8000-10000 die in accidents in the home. Even in the worst school shooting year ever, school is the safest place for our kids to be, statistically-speaking. Much safer than home. Much safer than the commute. Given the importance of school, and of a learning environment that feels safe and comfortable (plenty of research backs this up) I think it's clear that the negative impact of making millions of kids afraid to be at school is the biggest negative impact here. And it's based on an obvious deception generated and perpetuated by the media - that school is a dangerous place to be. It's easy for anybody with an internet connection and 15 minutes to convince themself that school is, in fact, statistically very safe. But not a lot of students and parents are actually fact-checking the media.
I again, agree, although it is still a problem that can and should be solved. People died in Parkland, Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc. Those people should be alive.

Is the US government pending money on gun control? How much? I thought it was activists who were dedicating time to gun control.
8/6/2019 2:29 PM
Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/6/2019 10:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dino27 on 8/6/2019 10:26:00 AM (view original):
i consider you a friend as well
but i vehemently disagree.
i mean just look at all of the major challenges
in the world.
no, there are not "fine people on both sides " or equal danger from both sides.
there is no equal among the dems to white nationalsm that drives the republican core.
thats a fact mac.
First line - good deal. Sorry for being silent over that last couple of months. Had some health issues to tackle.

We'll vehemently disagree, then. Both sides are espousing (I believe intentionally in a bid for absolute power) an irrational utopianism and demanding perfection. There is no such thing as perfection. It doesn't exist in nature and is a man-made construct. There will never be a world where everybody sings Kumbaya and holds hands. There will always be a world full of prejudice, hate, fear, jealousy, murder, greed, and dozens of conditions more.

You can't codify human nature. You can codify authoritarianism.
Both sides (or political parties0 are only interested in one thing...maintaining and increasing their power.
A world where everyone sings Kumbaya and holds hands? Wow! I'm glad we don't have that. It would make me want to barf!

gomiami, hope you are feeling better, friend
8/6/2019 7:28 PM
Posted by wylie715 on 8/6/2019 7:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/6/2019 10:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dino27 on 8/6/2019 10:26:00 AM (view original):
i consider you a friend as well
but i vehemently disagree.
i mean just look at all of the major challenges
in the world.
no, there are not "fine people on both sides " or equal danger from both sides.
there is no equal among the dems to white nationalsm that drives the republican core.
thats a fact mac.
First line - good deal. Sorry for being silent over that last couple of months. Had some health issues to tackle.

We'll vehemently disagree, then. Both sides are espousing (I believe intentionally in a bid for absolute power) an irrational utopianism and demanding perfection. There is no such thing as perfection. It doesn't exist in nature and is a man-made construct. There will never be a world where everybody sings Kumbaya and holds hands. There will always be a world full of prejudice, hate, fear, jealousy, murder, greed, and dozens of conditions more.

You can't codify human nature. You can codify authoritarianism.
Both sides (or political parties0 are only interested in one thing...maintaining and increasing their power.
A world where everyone sings Kumbaya and holds hands? Wow! I'm glad we don't have that. It would make me want to barf!

gomiami, hope you are feeling better, friend
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. A world where everybody got along would be darker than the Book of Revelations.

Having to cut back to a few WIS teams. That's, in part, why I asked strikeout to replace me in Doubleday.
8/6/2019 8:50 PM
Posted by laramiebob on 8/6/2019 12:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/6/2019 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 8/6/2019 10:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/6/2019 12:44:00 AM (view original):
Every time we have a multiple shooting we have to deal with this absurd period of the political cycle being dominated by what frankly remains a very minor issue. Don't get me wrong, I've never been opposed to some basic gun control, starting with a reasonable assault weapons ban. But it's not the kind of priority that people try to make it. This is probably the most egregious example right now of the media controlling political priorities and pushing them away from more significant problems.

The reality is that mass murders are still only a small fraction of homicides in the United States. And murders lag comfortably behind auto accidents and suicides among causes of death - to say nothing of heart attack, stroke, and cancer. Similarly, how many people do you think died in school shootings in the past year? I'll give you a hint - you can count them on one hand. How much money has been spent nationally protesting against school violence, defending against it, etc. Close to 3000 school-age and younger children die each year in auto accidents. 350 drown. What do you think is a better allocation of resources - a few million for an informational campaign on the risk of drowning in backyard pools, or billions nationwide to combat school shootings? A 1% drop in drownings would have saved more lives this year than a 75% reduction in school shootings. A 1% drop in drunk driving - about 500 minor fatalities per year IIRC - would blow away stopping all the school shootings.

It's not that it's not a tragedy. I'm not trying to argue that. I am trying to argue that the media presentation of mass murders and school shootings clouds the relative significance of such events as a real threat to the American people. There is much lower-hanging fruit if we want to save some lives.
I completely agree dahs... At the same time, I don't necessarily see a tradeoff between those policies. And Republicans have been blocking other gun reform to stop suicides, such as Red Flag laws.
I'm not trying to make a "Republicans are better" argument. What I am suggesting is that the money and effort being directed towards gun control could probably be better spent. Again, I'd be in favor of an assault weapons ban, but at the same time skeptical of its effectiveness.

I guess tangentially I'm also suggesting that the media are having a distinctly negative social impact here. I know it's slightly off-topic, but closely related, and I'm going to refer back to school shootings here. I haven't seen anybody in the media pointing out that only 4 people died in school shootings during the 2017-18 school year. Not even Fox News. We have kids saying - on TV and in their homes - that they don't feel safe going to school.

In an average year, 450 kids in the United States are murdered by their own parents. About 3000 minor children die in car accidents. Another 8000-10000 die in accidents in the home. Even in the worst school shooting year ever, school is the safest place for our kids to be, statistically-speaking. Much safer than home. Much safer than the commute. Given the importance of school, and of a learning environment that feels safe and comfortable (plenty of research backs this up) I think it's clear that the negative impact of making millions of kids afraid to be at school is the biggest negative impact here. And it's based on an obvious deception generated and perpetuated by the media - that school is a dangerous place to be. It's easy for anybody with an internet connection and 15 minutes to convince themself that school is, in fact, statistically very safe. But not a lot of students and parents are actually fact-checking the media.
Dahs. This is all very true. And I also basically agree with your prioritization of $$ argument. But those aren't the ONLY criteria. And the media alone is not responsible for our culture. Neither the culture of sensationalism, nor violence. THEY capitalize on it for the all American principle of Capitalistic $$$!

But your logical argument is not the whole picture. The reality is that in PUBLIC places, we are all vulnerable to senseless violence, some of which is racially driven random attacks nowadays. It IS important that our schools actually be safe and less vulnerable to random violence than a public marketplace/area. It's our KIDS and OUR (so-called) valued teachers sanctuary for learning. Yes, emotionality and sensationalism has elevated that realm beyond the numbers. So F'ing what? The worst thing about it is what you have pointed out about the violence invading the schools to the point that our KIDS don't feel safe anymore. That's horrid! And to the point that sensationalism played in that, I agree with you that it is reprehensible.

You also kind of miss another point. A whole group of shoppers were targeted because of their race and attacked at random with a military type assault weapon in a public space in the United States of America-----and due to a rather sick ideologically divide, half the Country (including You?) would prefer to not face the obvious, and instead talk about ANYTHING other than the reality that we have assault weapons IN the hands of angry misguided racist notjobs RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW, in the good ol USA............ those grieving families in one of the safest American large cities, (2.5 Million residents, 85% latino!---crossing back and forth across the border into and out of Mexico weekly), THOSE families, they don't give a flying F about your "perceived" violence threat compared to the statistical reality. There wasn't anything perceptual about that racist attack, it was quite real to them.

And the fact is that that one party, the party with the R, the RACIST defending/harboring party has Stood SQUARELY in the way of senseable assault weapon Laws for decades. And when the OTHER party managed to get a weak assault weapons ban into law, those same Racist defending "R's" allowed it to lapse, PURPOSELY!

There no longer is ANY legitimate defense of the "R" party as an honorable American Institution. the G.O.P. is no longer grand, it is devoid of basic American values.
What this fella said.
8/6/2019 9:29 PM
trump came to ohio - they sent him to a fake hospital with actors and actresses wearing bandages.
8/7/2019 2:26 PM
mike turner - a fed rep from ohio - a consistent opponent of all things gun control is suddenly for gun control.
his daughter was across the street when the shooting occurred
republicans.
8/7/2019 2:30 PM
President Biden delivered an absolute stem winder of a speech today.
one of the truly great speeches i have ever heard.
8/7/2019 3:21 PM
hey morons -

imagine that good people bought guns to protect themselves but not to muder people.
wouldnt those good people only want other good and mentally fit people to have guns.

i guess that makes too much sense.

republicans.
8/7/2019 3:28 PM
When Obama was president, he wasn't blamed for the mass shootings and I just wonder...............

OH WAIT!

NEVERMIND!
8/7/2019 6:54 PM
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The Trump License to Kill Topic

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