Lol dude was that me? I have made some dumb trades, it actually seems like I'm the opposite, I made some great savvy trades as noob, now those good trades are harder to come by.

I tend to overpay in a trade for a guy that will only be a slight upgrade to what I already have. I need to get better.

Trading is a barter economy, it's never going to be apples for apples. There are different interests involved: the integrity of the league, the freedom of owners to run their own team, the integrity of the veto, etc.

If a trade gets called out, I tend to put the burden of convincing me on the people who want to veto the trade, as long as the transactees can put forth a reasonable argument for their actions. When is it an appropriate instance to click the veto button? Justice Potter Stewart answered that one when he was struggling to define hardcore pornography, "I know it when I see it".

If the game put a little more guesswork into evaluating players, so that nobody could master distinguishing great prospects from good, or good from average, it would alleviate some of the severity of some owners taking advantage of rookies. It would also undermine tanking.

Knowledge is Power

This has always been a great topic, I'm glad you brought it back :) I think as I have played more the biggest pet peeve isn't the noob raping, but the lack of transparency. I mean, if I had known I could get a stud prospect for a bunch of 33 year old all stars on bad contracts I would have put in an offer too. Forgive me if I repeat myself, but the worse such example is a brand new owner making a trade with a whale owner that had already racked up something like 10/14 WS wins, and trading away their top prospect on the first day that trades can be made. I honestly think we can cut down on noob raping by around 50/75% if noob owners would simply use WC to advertise that they are fielding offers on player X. Other well meaning owners will try to dissuade them and if they still want to make a trade then the free market will make sure that that the noob raping owner has competition.

I would have to take the opposite position. A little more opacity in scouting would really separate the wheat from the chaff on this game.

We'd never get this because it would be a ton of coding, but I heard something I really liked in one of the other forums.

If I TC an owner (even as a cold call) and I say 'Hey. How would you feel about trading Dude Whitmore (p)'

Then on the world chat it would say 'Local speculation: Dude Whitmore (p) in trade talks'

Though I suppose then people just wouldn't hyperlink the player.

That would be interesting, why would you want it?

It would be a bit cumbersome, especially during the preseason, but I like the idea of all trades having to be announced to the league a day or two before being accepted so that other teams have an opportunity to counter with more competitive offers (or explain to a newbie why they're getting ripped off).

Posted by SeanDitmore on 10/25/2023 5:20:00 PM (view original):
That would be interesting, why would you want it?

Exactly the reason Brian just said.

It would be counter productive for me but it would be better for leagues overall. Usually if I'm in the running for the playoffs I'll start messaging the teams that are last in the league to see if I can make a trade for a player I need. Often it works but I also offer fair value for their players.

The worst is seeing a trade that has already been accepted between a world vet and a newbie where the newbie loses their future hall of famer and gets borderline garbage back.

Posted by brianplath on 8/30/2019 6:40:00 PM (view original):
This topic really comes down to your worldview. Are you the type of person that thinks in zero sum terms or win/win, do you place personal satisfaction above the satisfaction of the group, etc.? If the formers, by all means do whatever you can to win. Snipe the newbies in trades. Justify it as "everyone pays their dues" or "how else are they supposed to learn". But realize that this cultivates a league that is not very enjoyable for anyone because:

1) the new guys aren't happy and leave once they realize they got swindled

2) those new guys that stick around aren't happy once they realize they have to snipe the fresh meat but aren't as good at it/don't have the built in advantage that the the perennial trophy winning whale owners do

3) the five or so whales of the league that feed off the fish are only happy when his team wins the trophy while the others curse their luck or other owners.

If I play the game strictly to win then I'm doing it wrong. If I'm playing it because I enjoy the challenge, the banter, learning, teaching, watching my players break records, the excitement of a draft or IFA signing, a hard fought playoff game, etc. then I'm having a blast regardless of my team's record.

IMHO, trades that aren't initiated with a win/win/win (initiating trade owner/receiving owner/rest of league) mindset are a detriment to everyone's enjoyment of the game.

I have changed my mind since my 2019 post on this chain. I now mostly agree with Brian's post above. In fact, I'd take it a step further and bet that at least some of the people on this chain that are defending lopsided trades are part of the cause of this game spiraling downward.

I understand and agree that trades are not transacted in a vacuum, but when a trade takes place where one owner gets a young top ten player at his position and the other owner gets a 22nd man on the mlb roster type, a 23rd man on the mlb roster type and AAAA player in return, vacuum or no vacuum, that trade only benefits one team and likely causes trouble in the World. If you're the owner transacting that trade, that immediately tells me you don't give a F about the World. Don't hide behind the fact that the other owner should know better! No. You should know better! The same owner that transacts this kind of trade is the same owner that acts oblivious once people call him out, too.

Don't even get me started on the basic arithmetic, either -- the fact that before the trade even happened, the owner likely tried to negotiate multiple lopsided trades with other owners. I know owners that use that pest mentality where they just keep sending trade chats over and over to you to get you to trade them your best players.

Im actually trying to cut teams right now, but im having trouble choosing which Worlds to cut. I had planned to stay in one World, but as soon as I found out that one of these pesty owners was invited to the World, it made my decision easy. After ten seasons, I left that World. Sure enough the pesty owner came into the World and transacted 15 trades in his first season and 9 trades so far a few weeks into his second season. I don't know how many of these trades were lopsided. I also don't know how many people he irritated to get to the point of transacting 24 trades in less than four months. However, I do know that transacting that many trades in that short of a time period seems more like a game of Pokemon than it does a baseball game. Last time I checked, this game is named Hardball Dynasty not Magic: The Gathering.

Posted by brianplath on 10/25/2023 11:01:00 PM (view original):
It would be a bit cumbersome, especially during the preseason, but I like the idea of all trades having to be announced to the league a day or two before being accepted so that other teams have an opportunity to counter with more competitive offers (or explain to a newbie why they're getting ripped off).

This. Many times I will see a trade and think I would have offered more, but never knew a player was available. I made some dumb trades as relative noob (probably still make some) . I rarely veto a trade unless it looks extremely one sided. I rarely look at how long traders have peen playing HBD. Like someone else said it also depends on teams specific needs. I may trade a very good 2B for a not as good 3B because I have a need at 3B and a glut of good 2B. Also OVR doesn't really mean much..at least not to me.

Then again, if you look at my overall record, I probably don't know what the hell I am talking about.

Posted by wylie715 on 11/10/2023 11:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by brianplath on 10/25/2023 11:01:00 PM (view original):
It would be a bit cumbersome, especially during the preseason, but I like the idea of all trades having to be announced to the league a day or two before being accepted so that other teams have an opportunity to counter with more competitive offers (or explain to a newbie why they're getting ripped off).

This. Many times I will see a trade and think I would have offered more, but never knew a player was available. I made some dumb trades as relative noob (probably still make some) . I rarely veto a trade unless it looks extremely one sided. I rarely look at how long traders have peen playing HBD. Like someone else said it also depends on teams specific needs. I may trade a very good 2B for a not as good 3B because I have a need at 3B and a glut of good 2B. Also OVR doesn't really mean much..at least not to me.

Then again, if you look at my overall record, I probably don't know what the hell I am talking about.

Anybody trading a high quality player should never just sit back and blindly accept an offer from one team. Even as a first time owner, I would make it known a player is on the block to make sure I was getting good offers and not just one team's lowball. Just because I finally agreed to a trade, doesn't mean that's when you put thought into sending me an offer. I wish more leagues were get on a platform like discord so they can talk a little more easily instead of using the global chat on the league page.

But agreed on OAV, it's inflated by health and durability - which is important to an extent, don't get me wrong but I feel doesn't give true value as part of OAV.