Those worlds already exist. They are just patrolled by the commissioner instead of WiS. You must have at least 10 seasons to join Doubleday and I know Coop and MG have limits. There are other worlds as well that have experience requirements.

Posted by strikeout26 on 8/29/2019 9:35:00 PM (view original):
Those worlds already exist. They are just patrolled by the commissioner instead of WiS. You must have at least 10 seasons to join Doubleday and I know Coop and MG have limits. There are other worlds as well that have experience requirements.

Fair point, but I was thinking more along the lines of protecting newbs from the seasoned vets who like to trade rape n00bs.

The n00b only worlds wouldn't allow vets in there at all.

The issue is not just new guys. I see lots of vet owners who are in the dark as well. Being new does not make you not know how to evaluate players.

Posted by brianp87 on 8/29/2019 10:44:00 PM (view original):
The issue is not just new guys. I see lots of vet owners who are in the dark as well. Being new does not make you not know how to evaluate players.

While I would agree with the opposite statement:

"Being experienced doesn't automatically make you know how to evaluate players".

I would argue that it absolutely does take time to get a handle on player evaluation. I don't understand how anyone could possibly think it doesn't.

I mean obviously a player with 99s across the board is a stud, and sure even n00bs can know that immediately. But no one walks into their first season with a strong grasp of how all the ratings work, which are more relevant than others, which ratings work together, and several other nuances that can only be learned with time or told to you by a mentor who knows what they are doing.

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Posted by Vitamin_C on 8/29/2019 11:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by brianp87 on 8/29/2019 10:44:00 PM (view original):
The issue is not just new guys. I see lots of vet owners who are in the dark as well. Being new does not make you not know how to evaluate players.

While I would agree with the opposite statement:

"Being experienced doesn't automatically make you know how to evaluate players".

I would argue that it absolutely does take time to get a handle on player evaluation. I don't understand how anyone could possibly think it doesn't.

I mean obviously a player with 99s across the board is a stud, and sure even n00bs can know that immediately. But no one walks into their first season with a strong grasp of how all the ratings work, which are more relevant than others, which ratings work together, and several other nuances that can only be learned with time or told to you by a mentor who knows what they are doing.

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I do not think it takes much time. I can see a person coming ion on day 1 and doing well. Look on the forum, look at owners teams who win. Hell I won the ws my first season. It is easy to look at teams that win, league leaders etc and see what good players look like. The information is all there and in plain sight. The problem is not the new owners its the old owners who think they know more but cant win chit cause they don't really. Vetoing new owners trades makes them want to leave yet they wonder why its hard to fill worlds. Id be ****** myself. I can find 10 + vet owners in almost any world who still do not know how to evaluate talent yet its ok for them to tell someone what to do? It is bs.

Everybody is in the business of improving their team. I love trades. It gives an owner an opportunity to immediately improve the current state of its franchise.

What I don't like is the owner that enters a World, trades his entire farm system for a handful of the best MLB players in World, then after a few successful seasons, leaves because his MLB players are now over the age of 30 and other owners did not want to trade their young talent for his old talent.

I personally hate worlds were a few guys think they are all high and mighty. Its usually those few guys that drive out others. They also happen to be guys who rarely win much yet they want to control others.

This topic really comes down to your worldview. Are you the type of person that thinks in zero sum terms or win/win, do you place personal satisfaction above the satisfaction of the group, etc.? If the formers, by all means do whatever you can to win. Snipe the newbies in trades. Justify it as "everyone pays their dues" or "how else are they supposed to learn". But realize that this cultivates a league that is not very enjoyable for anyone because:

1) the new guys aren't happy and leave once they realize they got swindled

2) those new guys that stick around aren't happy once they realize they have to snipe the fresh meat but aren't as good at it/don't have the built in advantage that the the perennial trophy winning whale owners do

3) the five or so whales of the league that feed off the fish are only happy when his team wins the trophy while the others curse their luck or other owners.

If I play the game strictly to win then I'm doing it wrong. If I'm playing it because I enjoy the challenge, the banter, learning, teaching, watching my players break records, the excitement of a draft or IFA signing, a hard fought playoff game, etc. then I'm having a blast regardless of my team's record.

IMHO, trades that aren't initiated with a win/win/win (initiating trade owner/receiving owner/rest of league) mindset are a detriment to everyone's enjoyment of the game.

That's how you learn. Others should be able to trade. It should actually be on the vet owner who should not take advantage of a rookie.

Posted by ramonshaw on 8/31/2019 11:49:00 AM (view original):
That's how you learn. Others should be able to trade. It should actually be on the vet owner who should not take advantage of a rookie.

Well, entirely true. But how do you adjudicate vets not taking advantage?

Another true story: When I was a rookie, one of the other owners tried to bone me in a trade offer. He was commish at the time.

Posted by damag on 8/31/2019 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ramonshaw on 8/31/2019 11:49:00 AM (view original):
That's how you learn. Others should be able to trade. It should actually be on the vet owner who should not take advantage of a rookie.

Well, entirely true. But how do you adjudicate vets not taking advantage?

Another true story: When I was a rookie, one of the other owners tried to bone me in a trade offer. He was commish at the time.

Maybe you can't but you hope to have good owners to not want to take advantage.

Posted by damag on 8/31/2019 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ramonshaw on 8/31/2019 11:49:00 AM (view original):
That's how you learn. Others should be able to trade. It should actually be on the vet owner who should not take advantage of a rookie.

Well, entirely true. But how do you adjudicate vets not taking advantage?

Another true story: When I was a rookie, one of the other owners tried to bone me in a trade offer. He was commish at the time.

Haha. I know exactly who you're talking about. I have a feeling it might be the same guy you referenced earlier.

Posted by damag on 8/31/2019 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ramonshaw on 8/31/2019 11:49:00 AM (view original):
That's how you learn. Others should be able to trade. It should actually be on the vet owner who should not take advantage of a rookie.

Well, entirely true. But how do you adjudicate vets not taking advantage?

Another true story: When I was a rookie, one of the other owners tried to bone me in a trade offer. He was commish at the time.

Brings me back to (not so) fond memories of my early days starting out in Gleeman's leagues.

This is a great topic guys. My first season I was mercilessly approached by a perennial league powerhouse for players that would eventually become the core of my current team. I have since seen him acquire valuable prospects in the same manner. Change is slow, but I think other owners are taking notice and acting accordingly.

What if someone asks you for a players and makes you an offer that is not enough on there receiving end. You offer more they decline and you tell the player its not enough yet they still wants to trade. All while telling them to get a mentor or advise before accepting deals from a third party. You accept it knowing you tried. It doesn't go through and some of the same guys who vetoed it trade a young ml def ss for 2 aa at best turds. Just asking for a friend ;-).