My point being why continue paying $6 mil for a player whose SEVERELY underperforming when you can trade him in for a cheaper player and use the extra cash to upgrade your bullpen and/or your bench? Some may not agree with me but that's just my personal opinion on using the WW. I always get a cheaper player with good numbers but perhaps with less PAs and use the extra cash to upgrade somewhere else.

I think the veteran owners are trying to make two key points for newer players:

1. Statistical performance will always vary somewhat within a given sample of PA, but a small initial sample has no bearing whatsoever on future performance. A player with a .300 normalized AVG is always going to be that in future PA, even if he's currently hitting .200.

2. Unless you made poor draft choices initially or find your situation very different than expected (i.e., drafted a bunch of home run hitters in Target Field or your division is loaded with deadball pitching), there is a penalty to using the WW and so there is no "extra cash" at all. In fact, it's the opposite. It's a salary penalty. So you'd be basically downgrading your roster and should only do it if you can get someone much better suited to your situation you find yourself in, so much so that it outweighs the salary cut.

All things considered, the best thing to do is almost always play out your existing roster. Underperformance is usually just about sample size anyway.

The only exception I could see is if you drafted way more IP or PA than you needed and could cash in the wasted IP/PA for a much better player you'll actually use. But again this is something you learn as a new player. I overdrafted on IP and PA routinely for my first year or so because I was so afraid of fatigue, and as a result I fielded inferior well-rested teams that lost more than they needed to.

Posted by Mixtroy01 on 10/14/2019 10:58:00 AM (view original):
So did I. DUMP him and find someone a little cheaper who will better fit your ballpark.

Why would you draft someone who wasn't a fit for your ballpark in the first place?

I would do it. But do we know that Dillinger isn't a good fit? I don't know if he is or isn't. But even if he potentially was a good fit I'd still dump him with the numbers he's put after 170 PAs. That's just me.

I meat to say I "wouldn't" do it.

I can accept a little underperformance. But that guy is killing his team.

Posted by Mixtroy01 on 10/14/2019 1:27:00 PM (view original):
I would do it. But do we know that Dillinger isn't a good fit? I don't know if he is or isn't. But even if he potentially was a good fit I'd still dump him with the numbers he's put after 170 PAs. That's just me.

That sounds like a good way to quickly lower your own salary cap.

Not the way i do it.

Well, if you really want to go up against me with a lower salary, I’ll take $100 on myself to win that one lol

Why don't you join mlb125145? We've been needing only one more teamto fill for almost two days now and its ridiculous. So come join. We'd appreciate your Excellency! Lol

Posted by ozomatli on 10/13/2019 6:52:00 PM (view original):
My point is more the opposite — a player’s performance so far has no bearing on how well he will do for the rest of the season, so you shouldn’t dump anyone unless you realize you messed up in your initial assessment of player value and find someone cheaper who is actually also better.

I was going to say (essentially) the same thing as Mike does here, except less succinctly. At the end of the day, bouncing around players from the waiver wire and paying the 10% tariff ends up being a fool's errand. I (again, essentially) never use the waiver wire.

Jaydubz, I took a look at your team. Ignoring the above debate, I would hold out on making a move. You're 1 game out of your division with 117 games left. No need to panic either way. There is a fee for using the WW, so you can really hurt yourself if you're too active using it. I'd give it at least a few more series before making a decision either way.

Personally, I would never hit the WW after 170 AB's. As other people already said, it doesn't make sense to make a move unless you made a mistake drafting (which can happen). If the logic you used to draft the player is sound, then 170 AB's is just too small of a sample size. Have you considered the quality of pitchers you have faced? There is a chance you have played a difficult portion of your schedule to start the season. The hitter could also simply be unlucky so far. 170 AB's can be skewed quite easily by a few great games (especially in blowouts against mop up pitchers). Players aren't 'broken'; if they were a good pick to start the season, they're a good pick the rest of the season.

Posted by Mixtroy01 on 10/14/2019 11:10:00 AM (view original):
My point being why continue paying $6 mil for a player whose SEVERELY underperforming when you can trade him in for a cheaper player and use the extra cash to upgrade your bullpen and/or your bench? Some may not agree with me but that's just my personal opinion on using the WW. I always get a cheaper player with good numbers but perhaps with less PAs and use the extra cash to upgrade somewhere else.

Dillinger is a $4.2 mill player. So you're recommending that they waive Dillinger and use approx. $3.8 mill to draft their 3B and upgrade their bullpen and/or bench? That's just not realistic. Hitting the WW might work for you in certain spots, but that's just bad advice for this owner in their current situation.

I don't play too many leagues that use the WW. Here is an example of when I would suggest doing it...

In a league that offers AAA players, perhaps you get an A or B stamina starting pitcher or position player that you find is an above average player that can play nearly as much as a full time player. You could ditch a starting position player, insert the AAA player into the lineup, use the acquired funds to upgrade another spot or two on your roster.

I will not budge on the danger of overusing the WW. You are going to dilute your roster. You cannot justify turning an $80M team into a $75M team, or less. More often than not you will do more harm than good. Bank it.

Posted by redcped on 10/14/2019 12:22:00 PM (view original):
I think the veteran owners are trying to make two key points for newer players:

1. Statistical performance will always vary somewhat within a given sample of PA, but a small initial sample has no bearing whatsoever on future performance. A player with a .300 normalized AVG is always going to be that in future PA, even if he's currently hitting .200.

2. Unless you made poor draft choices initially or find your situation very different than expected (i.e., drafted a bunch of home run hitters in Target Field or your division is loaded with deadball pitching), there is a penalty to using the WW and so there is no "extra cash" at all. In fact, it's the opposite. It's a salary penalty. So you'd be basically downgrading your roster and should only do it if you can get someone much better suited to your situation you find yourself in, so much so that it outweighs the salary cut.

All things considered, the best thing to do is almost always play out your existing roster. Underperformance is usually just about sample size anyway.

The only exception I could see is if you drafted way more IP or PA than you needed and could cash in the wasted IP/PA for a much better player you'll actually use. But again this is something you learn as a new player. I overdrafted on IP and PA routinely for my first year or so because I was so afraid of fatigue, and as a result I fielded inferior well-rested teams that lost more than they needed to.

Great summary of the collective wisdom here as expressed by contrarian23, ozomati and yourself redcped . I have certainly learned the hard way that you are not only undermining your own roster but also making your learning curve more difficult, since you don't see what the team would have done as drafted so as to learn from mistakes.

I think sseeing a team as an investment you are pay players for instead of as your own interaction with your own creation is misleading.