Posted by DougOut on 10/17/2021 1:18:00 PM (view original):
I agree with L&F74 as not discussing it here. A different forum/setting would be more preferable. I would add, in the limited number of times I've entered in a Biblical discussion here, it ends up in Blasphemy and misuse of the Lords name. That's why I don't do it here. I think however, the main offender may be on a temporary time out, and so I'll use this opportunity to chime in.

We all have in our possession, many good translations of the Bible right on our computers so it shouldn't be a problem accessing these verses.

This is GOD talking to the prophet Jeremiah. Jer - 1:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." King James Version
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew* you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you a prophet to the nations." New International Version
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations." English Standard Version
* chose

Psalm 139:13-16
For You formed my inward parts;
You wove me in my mother’s womb.
I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;

Well, that's a start. There are many more should you want to investigate farther. I also noted while searching this material, the penalty for killing an unborn child was DEATH.

Have a peaceful and blessed Lords day.

I see no reason why you can’t have biblical discussions in a different thread in non sports and if people act like the rsp guy does then report them.

Posted by Jetson21 on 10/17/2021 1:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 10/17/2021 1:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by lostnfound74 on 10/17/2021 7:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 10/16/2021 3:50:00 PM (view original):

Jail for a miscarriage?

I mean, if you believe that a fetus is a person, yeah, this makes sense. The woman in question used substances, and the court ruled that because of the substance abuse, the miscarriage happened. If you believe that a fetus is a person, then this would be involuntary manslaughter, right?

It makes no sense because deep down, most of us recognize that fetuses don't really meet our standard for personhood. But if you do believe that, I don't see why you shouldn't be OK with legal rulings that would be perfectly ideologically consistent for you.

What divides us on this issue is that 'Fetuses' meet God's standard of being a living being. I can give many references, but would rather not, as it is next to impossible to change a man's opinion if he is set it in stone.

I don't care about "God's standard." I care about yours. If you think fetuses are humans, I don't see how you could oppose jailing people for miscarriages.

Do you have any brains at all? Apparently not.
such a petulant bratty kid.
with less then zero credibility.
Even your few enablers know that by now.
Are you smart enough to understand the difference between intentional vs accidental.
You have a screw loose to make the above statement.
Another example of your insane and repulsive phony arguments. Dumb. Each time you try to look smarter and every time you look so friggin dumb.

I have come to the conclusion you are the worst of the worst and you are looking worse by the day.

You will never survive in the outside world if this is the kind of person you have chosen to be.

Look up "involuntary manslaughter" and come back to me pls

Posted by Jetson21 on 10/17/2021 1:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 10/17/2021 1:31:00 PM (view original):
Then an IUD is also "murder", right?

And maybe in his eyes even masturbation.
Of course he doesn’t believe that either are.
Just his disrespectful loser way of conducting himself over and over and over and over and over again.

Let the adults converse.

Maybe not masturbation, because I believe most pro lifers define personhood as beginning when the pregnancy starts. But yeah, it's not unreasonable to point out that if you believe fetuses are people, miscarriages are akin to involuntary manslaughter.

Jetson= Dino

You are blocking the author of this post, DinoJetson21.

Jetson = Dino

Dino = Jetson

dino has tang derangement syndrome

Posted by tangplay on 10/16/2021 3:50:00 PM (view original):

Jail for a miscarriage?

I mean, if you believe that a fetus is a person, yeah, this makes sense. The woman in question used substances, and the court ruled that because of the substance abuse, the miscarriage happened. If you believe that a fetus is a person, then this would be involuntary manslaughter, right?

It makes no sense because deep down, most of us recognize that fetuses don't really meet our standard for personhood. But if you do believe that, I don't see why you shouldn't be OK with legal rulings that would be perfectly ideologically consistent for you.

I'll play devil's advocate here.

In this case, substance abuse led to a miscarriage. In other cases, substance abuse leads to physical and cognitive disabilities. When you also consider the substantially higher probability of children of substance abusers becoming wards of the state, substance abuse by a pregnant woman generates significant financial liability for the state and its taxpayers. The only valid reason I've ever heard for mandating things like seatbelts and motorcycle helmets is that the failure to use them puts potential liability on society at large when the people involved are uninsured or underinsured. Basically, we won't let people be irresponsible when society might have to pay for it. That same standard could easily apply here. Regardless of how you feel, specifically, about the manslaughter charge, there is a valid argument that criminalizing substance abuse during a known pregnancy is consistent with existing law.

You make a fair point - I'd counter that if we criminalize all actions that could potentially lead to a greater liability for taxpayers, we would be criminalizing almost every negative decision, especially in parenting.

I could make the same argument about spanking your kids - a ton of research has determined that this reduces mental health and cognitive and emotional development long term of affected kids, which would therefore increase the likelihood of those kids then growing up to become burdens on other taxpayers. Should we criminalize spanking kids, or any of the other countless examples of similar actions?

There's a difference, in my view, between direct liability and proximate liability. But it's also a blurry line.

Regardless, this conversation, while interesting, is a bit of a diversion from my original point about the personhood of a fetus. Whether or not the fetus meets our definition of personhood has little to do with this specific argument. The court ruling in question, from my understanding, criminalized the woman not due to future liability to society but rather causing the death of their child.

Jetson = Dino

Posted by Jetson21 on 10/18/2021 12:12:00 PM (view original):
I misread and in haste made a few posts that were unjustified and for that I humbly apologize to Tangplay
because he was specifically talking about a miscarriage caused by extreme substance abuse by a woman during pregnancy.

I call myself out on this one and wear the scarlet letter for today.

Hey it's good. Don't beat yourself up