Posted by fd343ny on 7/6/2020 9:23:00 PM (view original):
Do you aim for 60% shooting on 2pt shots?

Woah! That's high... I aim to 60% eFG on 2 point shots (including FTs which I assume are 85% drawn from going for 2s and 15% drawn at the end of games intentionally fouling) but you can usually hit that with 48-54% depending on how often your guy gets fouled.

Posted by cubcub113 on 7/6/2020 9:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 7/6/2020 9:23:00 PM (view original):
Do you aim for 60% shooting on 2pt shots?

Woah! That's high... I aim to 60% eFG on 2 point shots (including FTs which I assume are 85% drawn from going for 2s and 15% drawn at the end of games intentionally fouling) but you can usually hit that with 48-54% depending on how often your guy gets fouled.

I think that’s probably a reference to doggggg’s comment about aiming for 40% on 3FG%. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison, as 2FGA come with more fouls, but I think that was probably fd’s point.

Posted by fd343ny on 7/6/2020 9:23:00 PM (view original):
Do you aim for 60% shooting on 2pt shots?

im curious to hear the rationale behind this question as well. i'm guessing shoe is right, but still

Posted by cubcub113 on 7/6/2020 9:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 7/6/2020 9:23:00 PM (view original):
Do you aim for 60% shooting on 2pt shots?

Woah! That's high... I aim to 60% eFG on 2 point shots (including FTs which I assume are 85% drawn from going for 2s and 15% drawn at the end of games intentionally fouling) but you can usually hit that with 48-54% depending on how often your guy gets fouled.

im losing faith as time goes on that fouls drawn by the player are mostly drawn by the player. more and more it seems like they are team fouls, distributed based on who is taking 2s and has the ath/spd, as the increase in team fouls does not seem to follow the shifting of distro to higher foul drawing players. it increases some, but i'm seriously doubting its the full amount. this would necessarily mean those high end foul drawers at 48% are giving you misleading EFG figures (i think).

i made it through 10+ years without ever thinking this, so i'm not sure its terribly important. not really going anywhere with it either, just something to consider i guess. its sort of amazing when i think back on past me, how clueless i was, yet how successful i was. i mean, i've long said i never got anywhere near the ceiling, but still. sometimes i wonder if any of us have made it past the first floor.

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/6/2020 11:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 7/6/2020 9:23:00 PM (view original):
Do you aim for 60% shooting on 2pt shots?

im curious to hear the rationale behind this question as well. i'm guessing shoe is right, but still

I'm sure shoe is right. The community loves to take shots at me and tell me all my methods are wrong, but I do just fine compared to those that think my methods are ridiculous. That's where i find humor in it. Lots of ways to win in HD.

I know I can exaggerate at times, but for example in the thread about signing players at L1, cub says he'd sign a player that Mrslam throws an AP at "10 times out of 10". I have no way of knowing if he was referring to mrslam specifically, or if he was referring to "elite coaches" (he mentioned both). But if I had 140 AP, I throw an AP at roughly 100 players. I SURELY wouldn't sign all 100 of those. I throw out my initial AP at L3. And sometimes all the blues end up being blue at L4 and the player is garbage.

So its possible that was an exaggeration on his behalf.

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/7/2020 4:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/6/2020 11:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 7/6/2020 9:23:00 PM (view original):
Do you aim for 60% shooting on 2pt shots?

im curious to hear the rationale behind this question as well. i'm guessing shoe is right, but still

I'm sure shoe is right. The community loves to take shots at me and tell me all my methods are wrong, but I do just fine compared to those that think my methods are ridiculous. That's where i find humor in it. Lots of ways to win in HD.

I know I can exaggerate at times, but for example in the thread about signing players at L1, cub says he'd sign a player that Mrslam throws an AP at "10 times out of 10". I have no way of knowing if he was referring to mrslam specifically, or if he was referring to "elite coaches" (he mentioned both). But if I had 140 AP, I throw an AP at roughly 100 players. I SURELY wouldn't sign all 100 of those. I throw out my initial AP at L3. And sometimes all the blues end up being blue at L4 and the player is garbage.

So its possible that was an exaggeration on his behalf.

But is 40% 3 point shooting really that ridiculous? I'm in my 4th season but I feel like my team is casually shooting 40% of 3 this season.

I also have a number of players at +2, but I have a great inside game. So perhaps that helps.

No 40% is a great target. I guess that some coaches just feel like if you're shooting 40%, that you could shoot a lot more 3fga. Which is a fair assessment. But the 40% number is a high mark for some

yes, my point was just that in the most simplistic sense (ignoring free throws etc) 40% on threes produces the same points as 60% of twos.

Of course, 40% on threes is a nice goal, but when I see one of my guys doing that I consider whether he should be taking more. BUT, very important in looking at that to consider the opponents. If a player kills it during out of conference or against bad SIMs in conference, but is actually hitting say only 34 or 35% of threes against competitive opponents, then an overall 40% on threes should not be a signal to take more.

Allow me to throw a wrench in here.....Let's say you have a guy who is 92 perimeter and 70 LP. What do you do with him? On the flip side, let's say you have a guy with 73 perimeter but 1 LP. What do you do with him? I don't have specific players with these attributes, just getting opinions on the possibilities. This is what I struggle with the most and I do understand that ATH/SPD carries a lot of weight with this, so let's say both players are 85/85.

Posted by tiweav01 on 7/7/2020 7:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/7/2020 4:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/6/2020 11:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 7/6/2020 9:23:00 PM (view original):
Do you aim for 60% shooting on 2pt shots?

im curious to hear the rationale behind this question as well. i'm guessing shoe is right, but still

I'm sure shoe is right. The community loves to take shots at me and tell me all my methods are wrong, but I do just fine compared to those that think my methods are ridiculous. That's where i find humor in it. Lots of ways to win in HD.

I know I can exaggerate at times, but for example in the thread about signing players at L1, cub says he'd sign a player that Mrslam throws an AP at "10 times out of 10". I have no way of knowing if he was referring to mrslam specifically, or if he was referring to "elite coaches" (he mentioned both). But if I had 140 AP, I throw an AP at roughly 100 players. I SURELY wouldn't sign all 100 of those. I throw out my initial AP at L3. And sometimes all the blues end up being blue at L4 and the player is garbage.

So its possible that was an exaggeration on his behalf.

But is 40% 3 point shooting really that ridiculous? I'm in my 4th season but I feel like my team is casually shooting 40% of 3 this season.

I also have a number of players at +2, but I have a great inside game. So perhaps that helps.

its a good target, 40% is roughly the target i have for all of my teams, and we typically beat it. however, the schedule you play matters a lot. the schedule you are playing is exceptionally weak, which kinda means the stats are meaningless for assessing how your team would perform against NT caliber competition. its definitely possible to build 40% teams against hard, human filled schedules, but its definitely a lot harder than doing it against sim heavy schedules.

Posted by mattstarks on 7/7/2020 9:34:00 AM (view original):
Allow me to throw a wrench in here.....Let's say you have a guy who is 92 perimeter and 70 LP. What do you do with him? On the flip side, let's say you have a guy with 73 perimeter but 1 LP. What do you do with him? I don't have specific players with these attributes, just getting opinions on the possibilities. This is what I struggle with the most and I do understand that ATH/SPD carries a lot of weight with this, so let's say both players are 85/85.

the 92 per 70 lp depends greatly on the team context. let's just assume hes good all around ratings wise to support those lp/per. basically, those guys on a 0 are going to take pretty few 3s, like 35% or so, and you'll likely not be happy with that. typically these guys will weigh in at +1. however, if your team is low on 3pt shooting, say you are down around 25% - no question, i wouldn't even hesitate on the +2. instead if you are up in the 42% range (3pta/fga), you may want to go with that 0 because he's probably going to be your best avenue for converting 3pt shots to high quality 2pt shots. generally speaking, even at a +2, that dude will take pretty many 2s - significantly more than a 1 lp guy would do - so a +2 is not as strong as it sounds.

the 73 per and 1 lp also depends a little bit, in terms of what that translates to. im guessing in d3, that dude's EFG or whatever measure you want to use, is going to be *way* higher on 3pt scoring than 2pt scoring, because he probably is mediocre at 2s and decent at 3s, at which point usually 3s are much more efficient. in d1, the dude might get crushed on 3s though... in which case probably, you just don't want him scoring much. but sometimes those guys are fine 2pt scorers, if you have the ath/spd/bh/ft to take 2s efficiently or reasonably efficiently, you might be down in the 0 range letting him take what the defense gives it. it mostly comes down to how much he sucks at 2s and 3s i suppose and which hurts you less. and how many 3s your team is taking. i can see a wide range of options for him i guess across relatively plausible scenarios, but mostly, im assuming 0 to +1 in d1.

Posted by mattstarks on 7/7/2020 9:34:00 AM (view original):
Allow me to throw a wrench in here.....Let's say you have a guy who is 92 perimeter and 70 LP. What do you do with him? On the flip side, let's say you have a guy with 73 perimeter but 1 LP. What do you do with him? I don't have specific players with these attributes, just getting opinions on the possibilities. This is what I struggle with the most and I do understand that ATH/SPD carries a lot of weight with this, so let's say both players are 85/85.

Agree with gil for the most part. I'd base these players around what my team needs. If the 92/70 guy was my ONLY 3pt threat, I may +2 him. If I have other shooters, I may leave him at 0. I love the players that are reverse, say a 95 LP, with 70 PER. Disclaimer.... I don't have spreadsheets and data to prove this! But those guys seem to hit 3s at a higher rate than 70 PER and 20 LP players (for example).

And in all cases, the higher the ATH/SPD the better

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/7/2020 11:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mattstarks on 7/7/2020 9:34:00 AM (view original):
Allow me to throw a wrench in here.....Let's say you have a guy who is 92 perimeter and 70 LP. What do you do with him? On the flip side, let's say you have a guy with 73 perimeter but 1 LP. What do you do with him? I don't have specific players with these attributes, just getting opinions on the possibilities. This is what I struggle with the most and I do understand that ATH/SPD carries a lot of weight with this, so let's say both players are 85/85.

the 92 per 70 lp depends greatly on the team context. let's just assume hes good all around ratings wise to support those lp/per. basically, those guys on a 0 are going to take pretty few 3s, like 35% or so, and you'll likely not be happy with that. typically these guys will weigh in at +1. however, if your team is low on 3pt shooting, say you are down around 25% - no question, i wouldn't even hesitate on the +2. instead if you are up in the 42% range (3pta/fga), you may want to go with that 0 because he's probably going to be your best avenue for converting 3pt shots to high quality 2pt shots. generally speaking, even at a +2, that dude will take pretty many 2s - significantly more than a 1 lp guy would do - so a +2 is not as strong as it sounds.

the 73 per and 1 lp also depends a little bit, in terms of what that translates to. im guessing in d3, that dude's EFG or whatever measure you want to use, is going to be *way* higher on 3pt scoring than 2pt scoring, because he probably is mediocre at 2s and decent at 3s, at which point usually 3s are much more efficient. in d1, the dude might get crushed on 3s though... in which case probably, you just don't want him scoring much. but sometimes those guys are fine 2pt scorers, if you have the ath/spd/bh/ft to take 2s efficiently or reasonably efficiently, you might be down in the 0 range letting him take what the defense gives it. it mostly comes down to how much he sucks at 2s and 3s i suppose and which hurts you less. and how many 3s your team is taking. i can see a wide range of options for him i guess across relatively plausible scenarios, but mostly, im assuming 0 to +1 in d1.

It definitely depends on the rest of my team as I always try to be as balanced as possible. A couple of seasons ago I had a D2 team where my top 7 scorers were all 85+ in PER. I still wanted to shoot way more threes than a perfectly balanced team because that was my strength but I also didn't want to invite teams to go +5 against me. I had a guard who was 87 PER/43 LP who was often set at "0" or even occasionally "-1." I also had a PF who was 80 LP/93 PER and 82 SPD. His three point setting changed a lot based on the match up.

Posted by mrslam34 on 7/7/2020 3:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/7/2020 11:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mattstarks on 7/7/2020 9:34:00 AM (view original):
Allow me to throw a wrench in here.....Let's say you have a guy who is 92 perimeter and 70 LP. What do you do with him? On the flip side, let's say you have a guy with 73 perimeter but 1 LP. What do you do with him? I don't have specific players with these attributes, just getting opinions on the possibilities. This is what I struggle with the most and I do understand that ATH/SPD carries a lot of weight with this, so let's say both players are 85/85.

the 92 per 70 lp depends greatly on the team context. let's just assume hes good all around ratings wise to support those lp/per. basically, those guys on a 0 are going to take pretty few 3s, like 35% or so, and you'll likely not be happy with that. typically these guys will weigh in at +1. however, if your team is low on 3pt shooting, say you are down around 25% - no question, i wouldn't even hesitate on the +2. instead if you are up in the 42% range (3pta/fga), you may want to go with that 0 because he's probably going to be your best avenue for converting 3pt shots to high quality 2pt shots. generally speaking, even at a +2, that dude will take pretty many 2s - significantly more than a 1 lp guy would do - so a +2 is not as strong as it sounds.

the 73 per and 1 lp also depends a little bit, in terms of what that translates to. im guessing in d3, that dude's EFG or whatever measure you want to use, is going to be *way* higher on 3pt scoring than 2pt scoring, because he probably is mediocre at 2s and decent at 3s, at which point usually 3s are much more efficient. in d1, the dude might get crushed on 3s though... in which case probably, you just don't want him scoring much. but sometimes those guys are fine 2pt scorers, if you have the ath/spd/bh/ft to take 2s efficiently or reasonably efficiently, you might be down in the 0 range letting him take what the defense gives it. it mostly comes down to how much he sucks at 2s and 3s i suppose and which hurts you less. and how many 3s your team is taking. i can see a wide range of options for him i guess across relatively plausible scenarios, but mostly, im assuming 0 to +1 in d1.

It definitely depends on the rest of my team as I always try to be as balanced as possible. A couple of seasons ago I had a D2 team where my top 7 scorers were all 85+ in PER. I still wanted to shoot way more threes than a perfectly balanced team because that was my strength but I also didn't want to invite teams to go +5 against me. I had a guard who was 87 PER/43 LP who was often set at "0" or even occasionally "-1." I also had a PF who was 80 LP/93 PER and 82 SPD. His three point setting changed a lot based on the match up.

I'd like to have that PF on my roster

Does anyone use pts/2ptfga vs pts/3ptfga? This obviously has to have an adjustment for the FT factor, but I have been experimenting with it as a way to gameplay 3pt setting for individuals, defense team setting, and defense individual setting i.e. doubleteams. I don’t use this as a stand-alone for any of those three things, but I and the jury’s still out on the effects, but I think it has helped.