It depends on the LP. Say lp is 40 and less, 94per+ is +2

Just to throw in my 2 cents, I frequently use +2. Its one of the most efficient ways to score and the easiest to control (as opposed to FT's).

Generally I use:
75-80 per = -1
80-85 per = 0
85-90 per = +1
90+ per = +2

I've also found some inconsistency with secondary ratings such as BH and Spd. I've had players with 90+ in PER, SPD, and BH but only shoot 3's at a 32% clip. On the other hand, take a look at my Cal team. We shoot ALOT of 3's (57% of total shots). I have 3 players at a +2 when maybe only 1 of them should actually be a +2.

Senior - Cogar: Shooting 42.4% on 434 attempts. 100 PER, 83 SPD, 70 BH
Sophomore - Lafontaine: Shooting 38.5% on 239 attempts. 94 PER, 70 SPD, 63 BH
Freshman - Hawk: Shooting 35.1% on 174 attempts. 91 PER, 74 SPD, 78 BH

Cogar probably gets a nice bonus from a high IQ, but the other 2 aren't really there yet. I could probably increase Lafontaine and Hawk's percentages by decreasing their % of 3pt shots or decreasing their overall distro, but the team currently lacks scorers of any kind. But what's surprising to me is that we've been facing +3, +4, +5 defenses every night and still hitting those 3's at a good clip. I was expecting those defenses to force us inside or decrease our 3pt%, but it just never happened.

Anyways, I guess my main point is that SPD and BH sometimes seem to be overrated as secondary ratings. Are they going to shoot very well against top-tier championship level teams? Nope. But they've been very good against a fairly tough power-6 conference.

Also, like others have said above, unless your player has decent LP (30+) and ATH (80+?) for a guard, then take as many 3's as you can to stay at 35% 3pt% or higher. Because that player probably isn't going to shoot 2's at 50%+ and/or draw many fouls.

Posted by mlitney on 7/8/2020 4:54:00 PM (view original):
Just to throw in my 2 cents, I frequently use +2. Its one of the most efficient ways to score and the easiest to control (as opposed to FT's).

Generally I use:
75-80 per = -1
80-85 per = 0
85-90 per = +1
90+ per = +2

I've also found some inconsistency with secondary ratings such as BH and Spd. I've had players with 90+ in PER, SPD, and BH but only shoot 3's at a 32% clip. On the other hand, take a look at my Cal team. We shoot ALOT of 3's (57% of total shots). I have 3 players at a +2 when maybe only 1 of them should actually be a +2.

Senior - Cogar: Shooting 42.4% on 434 attempts. 100 PER, 83 SPD, 70 BH
Sophomore - Lafontaine: Shooting 38.5% on 239 attempts. 94 PER, 70 SPD, 63 BH
Freshman - Hawk: Shooting 35.1% on 174 attempts. 91 PER, 74 SPD, 78 BH

Cogar probably gets a nice bonus from a high IQ, but the other 2 aren't really there yet. I could probably increase Lafontaine and Hawk's percentages by decreasing their % of 3pt shots or decreasing their overall distro, but the team currently lacks scorers of any kind. But what's surprising to me is that we've been facing +3, +4, +5 defenses every night and still hitting those 3's at a good clip. I was expecting those defenses to force us inside or decrease our 3pt%, but it just never happened.

Anyways, I guess my main point is that SPD and BH sometimes seem to be overrated as secondary ratings. Are they going to shoot very well against top-tier championship level teams? Nope. But they've been very good against a fairly tough power-6 conference.

Also, like others have said above, unless your player has decent LP (30+) and ATH (80+?) for a guard, then take as many 3's as you can to stay at 35% 3pt% or higher. Because that player probably isn't going to shoot 2's at 50%+ and/or draw many fouls.

I like a lot of this post. I like the chart. And I agree with one thing a lot here..... +90s PER guys at +2 being "easy to score"

This post seems to be more about D1. I can't comment much there. But it seems like at D2, if a player that I sign gets to +90s PER, he's almost automatic. Now, if he's on my roster at all, then he's likely solid in a lot of areas. (You'll never see a player on my team with 35 ATH, 50 SPD, and 90s PER. I just don't recruit that way). But it's almost "free buckets" in a way. They rarely ever have off nights. I almost think +90s PER shooters are TOO powerful in this game. And there's lots of them.

Especially if I'm running triangle. Almost every player I ever had with +90s PER was money, every night. As a Sr I could mark em down for 20ppg at +45%, and focus on the other 11 players on the team as far as the game planning and adjustments. When NT would come and one of these players would have an off night, it would still be like 5-15 against a double team or something. Which isn't THAT bad at all. Just worse than the usual 8-15 or 9-16 from deep.

Does anybody else feel this way?

i pretty much agree dogg. what is baffling to me is... how are you guys making it through session one of d2/d3 recruiting? i am struggling to understand how that is fun for anybody but i'd definitely be interested in hearing some stories. maybe i'll find some inspiration.

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/8/2020 11:09:00 PM (view original):
i pretty much agree dogg. what is baffling to me is... how are you guys making it through session one of d2/d3 recruiting? i am struggling to understand how that is fun for anybody but i'd definitely be interested in hearing some stories. maybe i'll find some inspiration.

See that's interesting to me. Being an all-D2 coach for the most part. So far in my D1 quest (roughly 3 total seasons of recruiting), I find it utterly boring! You mentioned how do we make it thru RS1? Simple..... lots of activity! Unlocking players, here comes a D1 so I need another player unlocked, should I drop visits now or not, is this D3 pushing me, only 3 cycles left until RS1 ends am I gonna get thru...... TONS of entertaining things!

D1 has bored me to sleep! Find a player, put AP on him, go all in after about 3 cycles, then sit and wait. Did he sign yet? Nope. How bout now? Nope. Yawn. 10 cycles later.... I'm awoke from a deep sleep to find I won or lost a roll between 58 coaches. Woo hoo. That's entertaining. So now i get to do it all over again. Find a 2nd player and go all in and hibernate.

At D2, I've been busy unlocking about 10 players during this time. And using strategy on what to do with each and every individual AP each cycle.

D1 recruiting is as boring as a game can be

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/8/2020 11:09:00 PM (view original):
i pretty much agree dogg. what is baffling to me is... how are you guys making it through session one of d2/d3 recruiting? i am struggling to understand how that is fun for anybody but i'd definitely be interested in hearing some stories. maybe i'll find some inspiration.

D3 is a mess. It’s a waiting game. I gave up long time ago. D2 needs to be one session as It was before. It’s the signing randomness that can be more luck than decisions at D2. Say you are on a late or a whatever... 2nd session gets tricky and mostly about luck unless you are A and more and built a lot of efforts on a player. Then you have a shot at holding off surging D1 teams searching for fill ins.

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/9/2020 10:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/8/2020 11:09:00 PM (view original):
i pretty much agree dogg. what is baffling to me is... how are you guys making it through session one of d2/d3 recruiting? i am struggling to understand how that is fun for anybody but i'd definitely be interested in hearing some stories. maybe i'll find some inspiration.

See that's interesting to me. Being an all-D2 coach for the most part. So far in my D1 quest (roughly 3 total seasons of recruiting), I find it utterly boring! You mentioned how do we make it thru RS1? Simple..... lots of activity! Unlocking players, here comes a D1 so I need another player unlocked, should I drop visits now or not, is this D3 pushing me, only 3 cycles left until RS1 ends am I gonna get thru...... TONS of entertaining things!

D1 has bored me to sleep! Find a player, put AP on him, go all in after about 3 cycles, then sit and wait. Did he sign yet? Nope. How bout now? Nope. Yawn. 10 cycles later.... I'm awoke from a deep sleep to find I won or lost a roll between 58 coaches. Woo hoo. That's entertaining. So now i get to do it all over again. Find a 2nd player and go all in and hibernate.

At D2, I've been busy unlocking about 10 players during this time. And using strategy on what to do with each and every individual AP each cycle.

D1 recruiting is as boring as a game can be

appreciate your take! i suppose i just can't get into the set AP every cycle bit. it feels like so much attention paying is required to do it right and there's just so many recruits in the stack to pay attention to. kinda feels like the old d2 grind, which i was never really a fan of even in my youth, except it drags on for way longer. i suppose i can see how all having that stuff to do could be a positive for someone else. i can't do that many rounds with the slave driver (time, the 6 hour cycles).

what i like about d1 is the game theory up front. that first cycle and the 2-3 after it is where most die are cast. its kind of really intense for a little while, but then you get to go on with your life. then around signings it gets a little interesting again. you shouldn't really be 'finding' anyone after you've already signed someone else. you more or less need to chart your course from very early on, its very front loaded.

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/9/2020 10:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/8/2020 11:09:00 PM (view original):
i pretty much agree dogg. what is baffling to me is... how are you guys making it through session one of d2/d3 recruiting? i am struggling to understand how that is fun for anybody but i'd definitely be interested in hearing some stories. maybe i'll find some inspiration.

See that's interesting to me. Being an all-D2 coach for the most part. So far in my D1 quest (roughly 3 total seasons of recruiting), I find it utterly boring! You mentioned how do we make it thru RS1? Simple..... lots of activity! Unlocking players, here comes a D1 so I need another player unlocked, should I drop visits now or not, is this D3 pushing me, only 3 cycles left until RS1 ends am I gonna get thru...... TONS of entertaining things!

D1 has bored me to sleep! Find a player, put AP on him, go all in after about 3 cycles, then sit and wait. Did he sign yet? Nope. How bout now? Nope. Yawn. 10 cycles later.... I'm awoke from a deep sleep to find I won or lost a roll between 58 coaches. Woo hoo. That's entertaining. So now i get to do it all over again. Find a 2nd player and go all in and hibernate.

At D2, I've been busy unlocking about 10 players during this time. And using strategy on what to do with each and every individual AP each cycle.

D1 recruiting is as boring as a game can be

If this is how you’re recruiting at D1 you are (a) at a higher prestige (which I personally agree is less fun) because battling people at D+ is not an advisable strategy and (b) you are not recruiting at all optimally

I recommend you put AP on at least 20 guys first cycle (or 10-15 if you only have 1 opening obviously) and try to win the game theory battle Gil outlines.

edit: B and C+ starting prestige isn’t too bad, although I’m baffled how you recruited that way at C+ and landed anyone...you also took teams that already have incumbent 5 stars, something that I personally feel makes the D1 come up far less fun

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/8/2020 11:09:00 PM (view original):
i pretty much agree dogg. what is baffling to me is... how are you guys making it through session one of d2/d3 recruiting? i am struggling to understand how that is fun for anybody but i'd definitely be interested in hearing some stories. maybe i'll find some inspiration.

My D2 team I have way less fun recruiting (it’s kind of a dumbed down version of D1 game theory) but it’s a little more fun to gameplan / build versatile teams because there are less 100s so you have more role players, you feel me? A 100 DE guard is actually something you can build a gameplan around, not just a necessity.

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/8/2020 7:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mlitney on 7/8/2020 4:54:00 PM (view original):
Just to throw in my 2 cents, I frequently use +2. Its one of the most efficient ways to score and the easiest to control (as opposed to FT's).

Generally I use:
75-80 per = -1
80-85 per = 0
85-90 per = +1
90+ per = +2

I've also found some inconsistency with secondary ratings such as BH and Spd. I've had players with 90+ in PER, SPD, and BH but only shoot 3's at a 32% clip. On the other hand, take a look at my Cal team. We shoot ALOT of 3's (57% of total shots). I have 3 players at a +2 when maybe only 1 of them should actually be a +2.

Senior - Cogar: Shooting 42.4% on 434 attempts. 100 PER, 83 SPD, 70 BH
Sophomore - Lafontaine: Shooting 38.5% on 239 attempts. 94 PER, 70 SPD, 63 BH
Freshman - Hawk: Shooting 35.1% on 174 attempts. 91 PER, 74 SPD, 78 BH

Cogar probably gets a nice bonus from a high IQ, but the other 2 aren't really there yet. I could probably increase Lafontaine and Hawk's percentages by decreasing their % of 3pt shots or decreasing their overall distro, but the team currently lacks scorers of any kind. But what's surprising to me is that we've been facing +3, +4, +5 defenses every night and still hitting those 3's at a good clip. I was expecting those defenses to force us inside or decrease our 3pt%, but it just never happened.

Anyways, I guess my main point is that SPD and BH sometimes seem to be overrated as secondary ratings. Are they going to shoot very well against top-tier championship level teams? Nope. But they've been very good against a fairly tough power-6 conference.

Also, like others have said above, unless your player has decent LP (30+) and ATH (80+?) for a guard, then take as many 3's as you can to stay at 35% 3pt% or higher. Because that player probably isn't going to shoot 2's at 50%+ and/or draw many fouls.

I like a lot of this post. I like the chart. And I agree with one thing a lot here..... +90s PER guys at +2 being "easy to score"

This post seems to be more about D1. I can't comment much there. But it seems like at D2, if a player that I sign gets to +90s PER, he's almost automatic. Now, if he's on my roster at all, then he's likely solid in a lot of areas. (You'll never see a player on my team with 35 ATH, 50 SPD, and 90s PER. I just don't recruit that way). But it's almost "free buckets" in a way. They rarely ever have off nights. I almost think +90s PER shooters are TOO powerful in this game. And there's lots of them.

Especially if I'm running triangle. Almost every player I ever had with +90s PER was money, every night. As a Sr I could mark em down for 20ppg at +45%, and focus on the other 11 players on the team as far as the game planning and adjustments. When NT would come and one of these players would have an off night, it would still be like 5-15 against a double team or something. Which isn't THAT bad at all. Just worse than the usual 8-15 or 9-16 from deep.

Does anybody else feel this way?

Yeah I’m with you here

My thoughts:

D1: Recruiting can be very fun due to the game theory discussed above. It is definitely the most intense and stressful (in a good way) part of the game. However, I find team building in D1 to be pretty boring. All top teams look pretty similar and that also makes game planning kind of boring.

D2: Probably my favorite level. I find team building to be the most satisfying at this level. Since all players have flaws you have to make sure you get players who compliment each other. Recruiting is fun at this level but very different from D1. You have to make more team building choices when recruiting than you do in D1 and you have to balance when to fight with low D1 schools and other D2 schools or move on to your backup. I also enjoy that there is no baseline prestige so any school can become a power and each world looks different.

D3: Not good. Recruiting is terrible and almost all the top teams play press. I like that I have a team in each level because they all feel different, but D3 can be a major drag sometimes.

Posted by cubcub113 on 7/9/2020 12:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/9/2020 10:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/8/2020 11:09:00 PM (view original):
i pretty much agree dogg. what is baffling to me is... how are you guys making it through session one of d2/d3 recruiting? i am struggling to understand how that is fun for anybody but i'd definitely be interested in hearing some stories. maybe i'll find some inspiration.

See that's interesting to me. Being an all-D2 coach for the most part. So far in my D1 quest (roughly 3 total seasons of recruiting), I find it utterly boring! You mentioned how do we make it thru RS1? Simple..... lots of activity! Unlocking players, here comes a D1 so I need another player unlocked, should I drop visits now or not, is this D3 pushing me, only 3 cycles left until RS1 ends am I gonna get thru...... TONS of entertaining things!

D1 has bored me to sleep! Find a player, put AP on him, go all in after about 3 cycles, then sit and wait. Did he sign yet? Nope. How bout now? Nope. Yawn. 10 cycles later.... I'm awoke from a deep sleep to find I won or lost a roll between 58 coaches. Woo hoo. That's entertaining. So now i get to do it all over again. Find a 2nd player and go all in and hibernate.

At D2, I've been busy unlocking about 10 players during this time. And using strategy on what to do with each and every individual AP each cycle.

D1 recruiting is as boring as a game can be

If this is how you’re recruiting at D1 you are (a) at a higher prestige (which I personally agree is less fun) because battling people at D+ is not an advisable strategy and (b) you are not recruiting at all optimally

I recommend you put AP on at least 20 guys first cycle (or 10-15 if you only have 1 opening obviously) and try to win the game theory battle Gil outlines.

edit: B and C+ starting prestige isn’t too bad, although I’m baffled how you recruited that way at C+ and landed anyone...you also took teams that already have incumbent 5 stars, something that I personally feel makes the D1 come up far less fun

I actually do this. But so far I've always had a lot of AP. I just don't find any intensity myself, in putting X amount of AP on players and checking back when signings start to see what's going on. To me it's the least intense.

Gil mentioned it being "work" at D2 and it is. I like working for a recruit I guess. And most of my D1 recruiting so far has been for big fish, or players I just sign quickly. Not very fun for me personally

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/8/2020 11:09:00 PM (view original):
i pretty much agree dogg. what is baffling to me is... how are you guys making it through session one of d2/d3 recruiting? i am struggling to understand how that is fun for anybody but i'd definitely be interested in hearing some stories. maybe i'll find some inspiration.

hahah it's not fun! snoozefest.

Edit. D3 is the snoozefest but D2 can be fun.

I think if you made some adjustments to dice rolls, being able to go 'all in', etc then D1 would definitely be the best. I think it functions how it *should* without the 2nd session signings, without the luck of just snagging guys that happen to slip by that you see at d2/d3.

But different strokes for different folks.

It really depends which level of D1 you're talking about. My D- prestige school works very similar to a D2 team, except that I can sign sooner. Mid-level D1 recruiting (C- to B+) can be pretty crazy. You really need to balance the aggressive and passive approaches. A+ teams can still show up late to knock you off. I think it's probably the most fun/difficult recruiting but also the most rewarding.

Posted by mlitney on 7/9/2020 6:19:00 PM (view original):
It really depends which level of D1 you're talking about. My D- prestige school works very similar to a D2 team, except that I can sign sooner. Mid-level D1 recruiting (C- to B+) can be pretty crazy. You really need to balance the aggressive and passive approaches. A+ teams can still show up late to knock you off. I think it's probably the most fun/difficult recruiting but also the most rewarding.

This is pretty accurate. I also agree where benis mentioned that D1 recruiting is working as intended. It's just not fun for me.

I guess the opinions all matter from perspective. As a D2 coach, the term recruiting to me is ACTUALLY recruiting. Reaching out to DOZENS of players, losing some, testing waters, "the chase". That is the fun part. So from MY perspective, D1 isn't "recruiting". It's "picking". Find a guy and put your AP on him and wait.

But a D1 coach isn't used to having that amount of "work" as gil said. If you're trying to win a battle at D1, you're leaving your AP there until something happens with that recruit. With 3 openings you might have only 5 guys unlocked. So to drop to D2, these same coaches are having to unlock 15 players instead of 5. And that's why the term "work" comes out.

again, it's just personal preference