Teams

bds9992 - Lebron James, Patrick Ewing, Clint Capela, Maurice Cheeks, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Favors, Dan Majerle, Marvin Williams, Doug Christie, Zelmo Beaty, Christian Wood, Marquese Chriss

gerryred - Wilt Chamberlain, Elton Brand, Mark Price, Kyle Lowry, Sidney Moncrief, Kyle Korver, Clarence Weatherspoon, Roy Tarpley, A.C. Green, Erick Dampier, JaMychal Green, T.J. Warren

dBKC - Stephen Curry, Shawn Kemp, Ben Simmons, Joakim Noah, Bo Outlaw, Willis Reed, Josh Smith, George Gervin, Kevin Love, Patrick Beverley, Dejounte Murray, Derrick White

dskantor - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Nance, Amare Stoudemire, Gerald Wallace, Jose Calderon, Peja Stojakovic, Bismack Biyombo, John Henson, Eddie Jones, Fat Lever, Muggsy Bogues, Swen Nater

24kpyrite - Shaquille O'Neal, Hassan Whiteside, Draymond Green, Damian Lillard, Joe Dumars, Jonas Valanciunas, C.J. McCollum, Michael Cooper, Jarrett Allen, James Johnson, Richaun Holmes, Dewayne Dedmon

tarheel1991 - Michael Jordan, Shawn Marion, Pau Gasol, Brent Barry, Paul Millsap, Wes Unseld, Jon Barry, Kyle O'Quinn, Carmelo Anthony, Gordon Hayward, T.J. McConnell, D'Angelo Russell

ashamael - Dwight Howard, Walt Frazier, Kyrie Irving, Jerry Lucas, Kemba Walker, Bill Bridges, Javale McGee, Clifford Ray, Mason Plumlee, LARRY SANDERS!, Ron Harper, Amir Johnson

mikee1 - Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Ray Allen, Charles Oakley, Paul Silas, Enes Kanter, Terrell Brandon, Victor Oladipo, Michael Redd, Kris Humphries, Julius Randle, Kevon Looney

goetz93 - Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, Mookie Blaylock, Anthony Mason, Joel Embiid, Andrew Bogut, Otto Porter, Dan Roundfield, Troy Murphy, Nicholas Batum, Cheick Diallo, Benoit Benjamin

mptrey - Chris Paul, Kawhi Leonard, Horace Grant, Bob Lanier, Dirk Nowitzki, Tree Rollins, Kevin Johnson, Ryan Anderson, Jayson Tatum, Domantas Sabonis, Fred Hoiberg, Steve Blake

amerk1180 - David Robinson, Andre Drummond, Andrei Kirilenko, Anfernee Hardaway, Paul Pierce, Chris Andersen, Jason Terry, Brandan Wright, Jusuf Nurkic, Darren Collison, Thomas Robinson, Dell Curry

pexetera - Kevin Garnett, Dwyane Wade, Nikola Jokic, Donyell Marshall, Jimmy Butler, Kenneth Faried, Ed Davis, Kyle Anderson. Larry Nance, Jr, David Lee, Delon Wright, Ivica Zubac

robusk - Kevin Durant, Tyson Chandler, Clyde Drexler, Terry Porter, Emeka Okafor, Samuel Dalembert, Lamar Odom, Goran Dragic, Joel Przybilla, Danny Granger, Darrell Armstrong, Brandon Ingram

dh555 - Larry Bird, Jason Kidd, Buck Williams, Kobe Bryant, Dale Davis, Kermit Washington, Marcin Gortat, Tracy McGrady, Brandon Roy, Ty Lawson, Jamaal Tinsley, Will Perdue

pharrop - Giannis Antetokounmpo, Rudy Gobert, Manu Ginobili, Bob McAdoo, Mike Conley, Andrew Bynum, Chris Webber, Kirk Hinrich, Nick Anderson, Rudy Gay, George Hill, Elmore Smith

cmcafeeky - James Harden, Dikembe Mutombo, Marcus Camby, Marques Johnson, Jerry West, Paul Pressey, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Gatling, Mel Daniels, Nerlens Noel, John Wall, David West

albiband0 - John Stockton, Karl Anthony Towns, Robert Parish, Jrue Holiday, Grant Hill, Adrian Dantley, Mark Eaton, Terry Tyler, Mike Miller, George T. Johnson, Dana Barros, Larry Smith

jcred5 - Julius Erving, Ben Wallace, Serge Ibaka, Rajon Rondo, Nicola Vucevic, Arvydas Sabonis, Rodney Rogers, Mark Jackson, Caldwell Jones, Blake Griffin, Jason Richardson, Chris Bosh

jpevans31 - Dennis Rodman, Klay Thompson, Alonzo Mourning, Derek Harper, Alvin Robertson, Tom Boerwinkle, Joe Ingles, Don Buse, Brad Daugherty, Sam Lacey, Johnny Green, Jae Crowder

benhoidal - Artis Gilmore, Anthony Davis, Bobby Jones, Deron Williams, Danny Green, Nate McMillan, Chris Mullin, Demarcus Cousins, John Collins, Boban Marjanovich, Jamario Moon, Jordan Bell

20ks - Hakeem Olajuwon, Oscar Robertson, Paul George, Walt Bellamy, Reggie Miller, Anderson Varejao, Dave Cowens, Micheal Ray Richardson, Wesley Person, Khris Middleton, J.J. Redick, Benard King

jhuskow - Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen, Bill Russell, Montrezl Harrell, Carlos Boozer, Luka Doncic, Pascal Siakam, Robert Covington, Buddy Hield, Theo Ratliff, Baron Davis, Brandon Clarke

longtallbrad - Deandre Jordan, Tim Duncan, Chauncey Billups, Eric Bledsoe, Al Horford, Cedric Maxwell, Jeff Teague, Yao Ming, J.R. Smith, Andris Biedrins, Jameer Nelson, Antonio McDyess

ysw128 - Moses Malone, Kevin McHale, Bill Walton, Bradley Beal, Andre Iguodala, Vince Carter, Charlie Ward, Quinn Buckner, Michael Smith, Jeff Ruland, Cole Aldrich, Sedale Threatt

Draft Order
1. bds9992
2. gerryred (via dBKC)
3. dBKC (via gerryred)
4. dskantor
5. 24kpyrite (via ashamael via pexetera)
6. tarheel1991
7. ashamael (via 24kpyrite)
8. mikee1
9. goetz93
10. mptrey
11. amerk1180
12. pexetera (via ashamael via ysw128)
13. robusk
14. dh555
15. pharrop
16. cmcafeeky
17. albiband0
18. jcred5
19. jpevans31
20. benhoidal
21. 20ks
22. jhuskow
23. longtallbrad
24. ysw128 (via ashamael)

Usual rules apply: no talkerino about undrafted players!

Also, while the Savage I is still going on, stick commentary about that league to that thread IMO. Thank you.

New Rule: No politics.

4th Round Thoughts


...but it wasn't pairing Mo Cheeks with Lebron. It works, just wasn't what I expected.

Wilt's crew. Lowry is the first pick I've liked with Wilt, but it's just weird to me after taking Price.

@dbkc

24k is building a god damn monster. Back to back titles for Shaq? Looking favorable. I regret swapping picks with him IMMENSELY.

I like what goetz has got goetzin' on

I almost went Marshall here. Great pickup for your squad, Pex.

Leverage was filmed in Portland. I only bring this up because of the sheer amount of Portland Rob's drafted. Also, Leverage is probably my favorite show of all time.

My reaction to every pick Ben makes this draft.

Overall 4th round summed up:

3rd Round Thoughts


jh after drafting 3 dudes with 22 rings.


Ben's team. Rob said it, but I agree.

Jcred's got a massive block party going on.

Not a pick, just what occurred in the commentary thread for most of a Saturday instead of doing literally anything else.

cmc getting Camby, alb getting Parish, and dh getting Buck. None of them should have been available for me in round 3, but I was hoping that one of the three would survive the gauntlet of good owners drafting ahead of me.

Bonus points if anybody knows why I posted this gif

I almost picked Draymond instead of Kyrie. I know 24k wanted Kyrie. So weird.

Ben Simmons in round 3. I don't doubt dbkc, but that one I would have never predicted. Maybe round 4.

Round 3 Theme:

1st Round Thoughts

Top eleven players on my board went in the first eleven picks, just not exactly the order I predicted. To me, there were 5 clear tiers within the first 11:

Ultra-God Tier - Lebron James. He's in a class by himself in the sim.
Zeus Tier - Wilt Chamberlain. He's alone in the next tier to me. He's one of the few guys in the sim that is elite in two categories for me (and yes, I consider tier 4 with as high of efg% as he has to be a paint monster). I call this Zeus tier because, well, Zeus was also a god, but he was known for spreading his ... ummm ... seed ... and so was Wilt.



S Tier - Shaq, Kareem, Howard. I think the difference between these three is very tiny. One day I think it's obvious one is stronger than the others, but the next day my mind changes. In any case, I think the three of these are the easiest building blocks of a championship team in this format.

A+ Tier - Steph, Mailman, MJ. Steph is at the edge of the top of this tier and closes out what I have been thinking of as 'the big six' His offense is unrivaled in the sim. Period. He's easy to build around. Lack of minutes are the main thing going against him in my eyes... particularly that 17-18 season. If that thing had 500-700 more minutes I might put Steph at the top of the S tier. Mailman doesn't bring as much to the table in five seasons as Shaq, Kareem, or Howard, but he brings enough. MJ is unique in the sim and is going to be tremendously easy to build around.



A Tier - Chuck, CP3, Admiral - Chuck's defense, cp3's minutes, and Admiral's lack of a 5th elite season are the only reason they're here. Again, I would be tickled shitless to build a team around any of them, but they are just a shade behind the previous 3. And by shade, I mean, y'all, we're splitting hairs.



The ambiguity of the 19-20 players makes this interesting, as there's one guy that I would put in the A+ tier if 19-20 are definitely in, but he's significantly lower if they aren't. You know who I'm talking about. I know you know who I'm talking about. And you know that I know that you know who I'm talking about. But I'm not going to say his name, because the third rule of sim club is you do not talk about undrafted players.

(the first two rules are that you don't trade with Ben)


(update: He's been picked. Giannis, obviously. Dude is everything I said and more. I'm jealous that I don't get to be the one to play with that 19-20 season first!)

After the top 11, I think there's a small drop off when we're talking about picking the guy that's the anchor of 5 teams.

Garnett is not a guy I would select in a league like this, but he brings superior defense, rebounding, and dimes from the front court. That means he's good, he's just not my style of player. I drafted a team that wasn't my style last go round, and I finished in the bottom half, so I should stick to what I'm good at. There are owners good at other styles, and they do them well. Pex is in the podium of the first Savage, so he knows what he's about.



Durant's best two seasons are sub 2500 minutes, and I'm not sure I couldn't use them if I picked him because they are THAT GOOD, despite the excellent array of seasons he has that does have a bunch of minutes. Imagine if those two GS seasons had 2900+ minutes?


Bird has two elite seasons, two great seasons, and then that fifth season is pretty meh to me. Like it's good, but is it what I want to center a team around good?


I would have lost everything on cmc's pick. I know it's not an alumni league, and he's not a guy that will just blindly take a KY player when there's somebody better out there, but I had two different KY guys (either from college or that played in the aba) penciled in here as good value, so that's why I felt sure he'd go there. Harden is a great pick, and at this point, really good value. Even without the inclusion of 19-20, this is a steal. With it? Man. I had Harden as a top 10 last season when the big three were banned, and the Harden owner just might win it all. How far up is he on my board? I have him ahead of Bird & Garnett for sure. I don't know if I put him ahead of KD or not, but if not, it's a close thing. He's at least near the top of that tier, and that tier is fantastic.

Hell, might have to start thinking about putting him on MJ's tier.


Okay, so the bottom third of the first round is a delightful place where you can find great value and/or go in on a top-tier specialist while planning on grabbing your offensive focal piece in the 2nd... and that's exactly what we see here. Stockton is a guy that could go anywhere from 8 to 24, but I think this is exactly the right spot for him. He's unrivaled with the dimes, gives good defense and stellar efg at a tier 4 usage. Dr. J is absurdly good in this format as evidenced by Ben last season. Did you know he has more 100 defense seasons than anybody else in the sim? Maybe more than the next two guys combined. He certainly has five that are 51% efg or higher. Good boards & dimes for the position, and oh by the way, has a metric **** ton of minutes. Rebounds well enough to play the three many seasons. Worm is the best rebounding forward that exists, plays defense, and does literally nothing else. I am not sure I take Worm in round one of this draft, but I'm also not sure that it's a bad thing. Looks like Brad has a solid shot to win a title with him from the first season, so, yeah.


So, yeah, Gilmore. I don't think a lot of people understand how good he is in this format, but that's okay. Except that you let Ben get him. Huge minutes. Big boards. Good defense. Elite efg%. Yeah, he has a lot of turnovers & fouls, but did you see what Pex did last season? I would argue Gilmore over Durant (and you would call me crazy) for the simple fact that he is one of the very few guys that checks multiple major boxes (paint monster + board lord). To me, anything after 15 is solid ******* gold value for A-Train.

I knew Hakeem would go in the first round again - thanks, Ben - but I think he might should have gone early in round 2 with the addition of the big bad banned threesome in the second season. There's at least one guy that does almost everything Dream does (sim-wise) better than Dream that's still out there, but we're splitting hairs. He's absolutely something great to build around. This is pretty perfect spot for Magic - he really gives you freedom the rest of the draft knowing that you'll have to really blow it to not get enough assists while giving you plenty of back court boards, and some good offense. mptrey did well with him last year.

Finishing up the first round is a pair of board lords, the first being probably the best overall lower-usage board lord in the sim, a guy who, oh by the way, happens to have 70%+ efg several seasons. Yeah, it's low usage, but it's not like those low usage guys don't shoot at all. This feels almost exactly right since you're going to get to add another piece almost immediately. Moses has less boards on the defensive side, but has tons & tons of minutes and has a few seasons with decent offense. He's not as good in this format as a single season format since nothing else of his compares to the 78-79 season, but there are a few decent ones to build around.

All in all, almost nothing in the first round was a shocker. Garnett was the guy that went the highest compared to where I had him, and Gilmore was the guy that went the lowest. So grades for the first round? Everyone got an easy A!

Comprehensive First Five Rounds Analysis
Disclaimer: The following are my opinion only and are meant to be taken with a smallest of grains of salt. I finished 15th last season, so I'm by no means an authority on this league.

Teams to Fear


dBKC - Stephen Curry, Shawn Kemp, Ben Simmons, Joakim Noah, Bo Outlaw
I'm scared of three seasons of this team. dBKC's gonna have to spend quite a few picks in the second half of the draft shoring up some major holes from the first part of the draft (Ben's only got three seasons, Kemp only has 3 actual good seasons, Outlaw doesn't give many boards except for a couple of seasons, etc) while still trying to get good rotation guys for the three big seasons. That's the bad news. The good news? I have every confidence that dBKC is up to the challenge. Actually, that is bad news as well.

dskantor - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Nance, Amare Stoudemire, Gerald Wallace, Jose Calderon
This is sneaky good. Look at the efg% of this team. Just look at it. Look at the defense (minus Jose & Amare, who are covered by Crash & Nance). Just look at it. Look at the turnovers of this team. Just look at it. The only thing keeping this team from complete annihilation of the league is rebounding, and that's not bad per say, just not as dominant as the rest of this is.

24kpyrite - Shaquille O'Neal, Hassan Whiteside, Draymond Green, Damian Lillard, Joe Dumars
Two extremely high efg% paint scorers + three guys to feed them the ball. Only weak defender is Lillard, and he's usually in the 50+ range. Plenty of threes. Boards are somewhat average. Turnovers (aside from Draymond) are excellent. This is ******* frightening. Only weakness right now is not knowing what Dame's 19-20 defense is going to be, Hassan's (lack of) minutes, back court boards, and Draymond's lack of offensive boards / meh efficiency most seasons.

benhoidal - Artis Gilmore, Anthony Davis, Bobby Jones, Deron Williams, Danny Green
Elite efg% all around. Good to elite defense all around. Defensive boards are strong. Offensive boards aren't bad. Maybe there's enough dimes; maybe there's not. Paint scoring. Perimeter scoring. Lot of towels between Gilmore & D-Will, and D-Will isn't elite other than a couple of seasons, though we all know Ben is going to fix this in the latter rounds. This is my early podium pick.

Teams with Nice Potential

jhuskow - Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen, Bill Russell, Montrezl Harrell, Carlos Boozer
Tons of boards. I mean, an absolute **** ton of them. Maybe the most in the league at this point, idk. Magic + Pippen give you so many dimes, which really makes Booze & Montrezl go off in a good way. Magic & Scottie are good offensive players, too. I like how you've spread the usage around to exploit teams (like your own) that kept pairing elite defenders with average defenders. Pex showed last year that you don't absolutely need 3s to be a really good squad, but you've actually got quite a few here just between Magic & Scottie. I like this squad a lot. The only thing keeping it from top tier to me is Boozer's defense & Russell's inefficiency, but we're almost splitting hairs here. Had I done five teams there, this one would be there.

pharrop - Giannis Antetokounmpo, Rudy Gobert, Manu Ginobili, Bob McAdoo, Mike Conley
Dimes galore + tons of offensive firepower. Defensive boards galore. McAdoo will be excellent at the four for the Giannis three seasons, and I assume he'll back up Giannis in the Giannis four seasons. I love the Ginobili-Conley back court for many reasons. Solid to elite defensively. Minutes are the only thing holding this team back from top tier IMO. How well you fill in the other 15-20 mpg behind these guys will determine if you're on the podium or just fighting for a top whatever finish.

jcred5 - Julius Erving, Ben Wallace, Serge Ibaka, Rajon Rondo, Nicola Vucevic
I know jcred was gambling on landing Boozer in round 5, and if he had won that bet, this team would be in the top tier for me. Vucevic is still nice, but this team was built perfectly to compliment Booze. Block party. Superior defense in every position (except that one). Good dimes. Good minutes from your top guys. Stellar rebounding Lack of threes is my chief complaint, and again, see Pex last year for that.

mptrey - Chris Paul, Kawhi Leonard, Horace Grant, Bob Lanier, Dirk Nowitzki
That back court alone is frightening. Horace as a nice compliment. I'm not big on Lanier, but he was pretty solid considering when you got him. I don't like Dirk, even though he was a nice value at this point. The back court is elite - maybe the best overall in the Savage thus far - but the front court needs more defense, boards, and/or efg to make the jump to an elite team. You have time to fix this.

Teams That Need Work


20ks - Hakeem Olajuwon, Oscar Robertson, Paul George, Walt Bellamy, Reggie Miller
Individually, I like most of the picks (not Bellamy), but together, it's ... it's not good. Fortunately, you have seven rounds to do some work, and you can absolutely salvage this and turn it around and stick it in my face. You need specialists, man. Role players. You have a bunch of scorers, and unlike real life, that doesn't increase efficiency at all. You need some guys that grab rebounds and play defense. Take care of that, work Bellamy & Miller as rotation dudes, and this team can be nice. Throwing them all five out there on the court at the same time will lead to something like 34-48.

amerk1180 - David Robinson, Andre Drummond, Andrei Kirilenko, Anfernee Hardaway, Paul Pierce
Like 20ks's team, I like most of these pieces individually, but not really as a unit. Penny is clearly only a 2-year plan, so I assume that your 6th or 7th round pick will make things gel better. It's solid defensively and on the boards. Offensive efficiency is the main question, and I think that in this league, that's either the most or second most important thing to get right.

gerryred - Wilt Chamberlain, Elton Brand, Mark Price, Kyle Lowry, Sidney Moncrief
This... this is not how you build around Wilt. Wilt doesn't mean you can forget boards. Brand is not an elite rebounder, even at the three. Price or Lowry make sense, but not both. Moncrief is okay with either, but not both. Who is playing power forward on this team? You drafted another low rebounding shooter in round 6. I usually like your squads, but this has been a huge swing & a miss IMO.

bds9992 - Lebron James, Patrick Ewing, Clint Capela, Maurice Cheeks, Russell Westbrook
I mean, you knew it was coming, right? I don't hate Cheeks as much as Robusk, but it was a pretty big whiff. Lowry, Lillard, Barry, Kemba, Porter, Conley, West, Jrue, Rondo, Derek Harper, Alvin Robertson, Deron, and Eric Bledsoe all went after Cheeks, and honestly, I think I would have taken most of them before to pair with Bron & Ewing. Capela is only basically one and a half or two seasons worth. Despite that, it's not as horrible as Robusk and a couple of others made it sound. But Westbrook? Westbrook?! Nah. No amount of 17-paragraph essays is going to convince me or anybody that it was the time to pull that trigger. I think you should have doubled down on a front court guy (I know you took Favors immediately in the sixth, and that was IMO a great pick) to shore up the lack of Capela minutes and waited to pull the Westbrook trigger till the next turn, where I expect he would still be available, and in the weird case that he wasn't, you could have gone a number of different and probably better directions to back up 'Bron.

Biggest Steals

3. Marcus Camby - I think people just kind of forgot about him. He's the cleanest board lord in the sim and even gives dimes in the process. Yeah, he lacks some minutes, but several dudes went before him that had fewer.

2. Rudy Gobert - He didn't really fall far, but the only board lords that have any business going before him are Wilt, Worm, and Deandre, and the latter two are debatable.

1. Anthony Davis - I'm not huge on Davis in this format, but he could have gone 10 picks higher and nobody would have batted an eye. Pairing him with Gilmore, then getting Jones, D-Will, and Danny Green all with great value is just absurd.

Biggest Reaches


3. Joel Embiid - I know what your team needed, and he provided a lot of that, but it still feels like you could have gone someone like Willis Reed here and still picked Embiid up in the 6th, 7th, or even 8th round. I could be very wrong.

2. Grant Hill - unless you're planning some shenanigans with a State Farm Squad in the later rounds (don't even try), this pick made no sense to me. you had a killer start with Stockton, Kat, Parish, and Jrue... but this was a huge whiff. A lower usage, better rebounding dude would have been a much better call. Hill is like 8th round material at best, unless, as I said, you were trying a State Farm Squad (don't).

1. Russell Westbrook - It's already been discussed. Westbrook is - at best - a 10th round selection to back someone up 4 or 5 minutes a game. I get why you did it, but you could have done it much, much later and would have been better off if someone had robbed you of the chance to make that mistake much, much later.

5th Round Thoughts


A crown for a king... yet somehow it feels like Ben is Khal Drogo here.


@jh


20ks's last two picks.

Ignore the liar part. Alvin Robertson was one of my favorite players as a kid, and I don't know anybody that deserves the thief title more.

I really like the Logo here and what cmc did with this squad overall.

Pierce was a good value pick even if the fit isn't exactly great. Same with Dirk going right after.

I love Ledlow, so as soon as I saw this, I had to pick it.

...for taking Paul Silas so I didn't fall into that trap again. I started looking again and was like, "actually, he isn't that bad, last season must have been a fluke..."

Me picking a backup when like 3 of the guys following me need the same type of dude as I do.

Dumars is an absolutely perfect fit here.

dsk needed dimes to fuel his really, really high efg% core, and he got it.


You know why.

2nd Round Thoughts


Ben watching person after person not pick Anthony Davis.


The reaction everyone should have at Pharrop's duo of Giannis & Rudy.

New rule: jcred has to select someone with an afro with every pick from this point out.

Instead of drafting Kentucky guys, cmc is drafting the most .gifable guys. I like both strategies.


Rob's pairing of Tyson with KD. They work together so well. Great match. But Rob's doing the thing where he's not grabbing a bunch of minutes again.

(no caption necessary?)

jhsukow ******** about the 22nd pick while putting together a sick ******* back court.


Me every time cmc posts.

me when mikee took the Glove from me after hours of wait.

when 24k took Whiteside with Shaq

at the Ewing selection

Round 2 theme?

9th - 12th Round Thoughts

As important as these rounds are for teams' success, not a lot of exciting reactions here, so probably not gonna do much if anything here. Going to spend this time perfecting my squad instead.

6th - 8th Round Thoughts

Going to have less reactions here and as we go forward... mainly just stuff I feel strongly about.


goetz93 taking a **** on Rob's pipe dreams of landing Bogut.
(I really liked Bogut as well, so I share in being shat upon)


Catching up on Round 6 was like looking at all of the best picks from the first Savage Draft's rounds 7-10 where people had lost their ******* minds and let a ton of great pieces fall for whatever reason. Favors, Reed, Bridges, Unseld, Bogut, Tree, Birdman, Faried, Dalembert, Kermit, Bynum, Sabonis, Bullwinkle, and Varejao were all dudes I thought still had a ton of value and could potentially start one or more seasons on elite teams, and they all went in the 6th... and that's basically just guys that rebound. Oh, and Kanter. And just when I thought I had seen it all...


This ain't 2k20... he's not going to turn into a 99 overall and win you multiple mvps in this league. It's a bold move, though. He gives you a ton of good stuff, but you have no idea how that defensive rating is going to turn out. Two seasons, one of them still shrouded in mystery... I love it & hate it at the same time.


Ward, Pascal, Mullin, Ingles, Webber, Odom, Ed ************* Davis, Jason Terry, KJ, Otto, Terrell Brandon, Bismack, Spoon, Majerle, and Marvin all picks in the 7th (and first pick of the 8th) that I thought were great value and added something nice to the squad that either didn't already have or doubled up on a strength.


Josh Smith. I mean, he does so many things well... but then he also has a stupid high usage with **** efg that ruins him. If only he shot the ball about 50% less... or 50% better!

Eighth round was more of the same... lot of good depth taken by a bunch of teams, and a few one or two year wonders got grabbed. Yeah, that was horrible grammar. Sue me.

Conclusive Thoughts and/or Predictions

How I'm going to do it: I'm going to break this down into three tiers and group the evals by the tiers. I will not be ranking any teams within each tier - I will be placing them all in draft order - so don't read anything into that. Also note that, while I was once accounted a sim expert, I did absolutely awful the first Savage draft. This isn't exactly territory any of us are intimately familiar with, so any evaluation done is going to be somewhat generic. Also note that while I may have had personal clashes with some members of the league, I will keep that out of the evaluation. I will, however, be factoring in what I know of an owner's tendencies and history within the sim into my final conclusion about each squad, so a strong owner with what I consider a weaker squad may end up on the same level as a weaker owner with a stronger squad. At the end of the day, nothing here is personal nor should be taken in any fashion than just pure entertainment. Here are the tier breakdowns before I get started:

Tier One: I think these owners will have more teams in the playoffs than miss them, so at least three, more likely 4 or even all 5. I expect the overall Savage Winner to come from this tier. I will pick no more than six teams for this.

Tier Two: This will be the biggest, most congested tier. I see owners in this tier typically getting one or two teams in the playoffs - maybe even contending for a title in one - but for the most part lost in the sea of 33-47ish wins where anything is possible and arguments could be made for as many as a 10-win differential should the exact same season be played again. I will most likely pick anywhere from 12 to 18 teams for this tier.

Tier Three: I don't expect teams in this tier to make it into the playoffs in any league at all. I feel that even in the typical competitive league congestion of the middle, they will be noticeably behind everyone. Note that I might not put any teams in this tier at all, as I haven't sat down and really evaluated them on any kind of level yet, but could put as many as six. *I ended up putting three here, mainly because I think they just messed up one or two aspects of the draft too much to make it to tier two, but let me be clear: they, too, could be caught up in the clog and might end up playoff teams despite everything I say.

Without further adieu:

Tier Three
gerryred - Wilt Chamberlain, Elton Brand, Mark Price, Kyle Lowry, Sidney Moncrief, Kyle Korver, Clarence Weatherspoon, Roy Tarpley, A.C. Green, Erick Dampier, JaMychal Green, T.J. Warren

It wounds me to put gerry, a true legend, down here in the bottom tier, but I feel he made THE mistake so often made when people take Wilt: they ignored rebounds elsewhere. This is true of Lebron, too, but when you get someone that’s *this* good, don’t ignore the strength they give you by taking average players elsewhere. I’m speaking of boards specifically here. I don’t see a power forward on this team. I see a lot of dudes that I’d play at small forward with Wilt, but not a single guy that I’d play serious, consistent minutes at power forward. Low rebounds in the backcourt compound the problem. Lots of assists, good defense, and solid efg% help matters, but I just can’t get past what I think is a - nay, THE - critical mistake people make when they pick Wilt.


albiband0 - John Stockton, Karl Anthony Towns, Robert Parish, Jrue Holiday, Grant Hill, Adrian Dantley, Mark Eaton, Terry Tyler, Mike Miller, George T. Johnson, Dana Barros, Larry Smith

There are great picks and players on this team, and then there are complete head-scratchers to me. Someone has to be at the bottom, and in my evaluations, this is going to be near there. I think it was a really nice start, but it started going off the rails with Grant Hill, got worse with Dantley (he really has no place in a league like this except as a reserve to another high usage, preferably high minutes, guy), Eaton I don’t really feel strongly about one way or the other, Tyler’s nice in progs… I think Miller makes sense with the first four even if he’s weak defensively, and I guess Barros was picked for that one season to use with a rotation of lower minute Stockton & Jrue seasons.. George T & Larry Smith seem fine, but again… someone had to be near the bottom.


20ks - Hakeem Olajuwon, Oscar Robertson, Paul George, Walt Bellamy, Reggie Miller, Anderson Varejao, Dave Cowens, Micheal Ray Richardson, Wesley Person, Khris Middleton, J.J. Redick, Bernard King

It really seemed like you were throwing **** at the wall, hoping some of it would stick. The first three picks were excellent, but it just kind of got real weird real fast with Bellamy & Reggie. I thought the Varejao & Person picks were excellent and were the types of guys you would want to surround Dream & either Big O or PG13 with, but it just seems like you took too many scorers and not enough rebounds at the 3 & the 4, and just not enough specialist type/role players anywhere.

Tier Two
bds9992 - Lebron James, Patrick Ewing, Clint Capela, Maurice Cheeks, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Favors, Dan Majerle, Marvin Williams, Doug Christie, Zelmo Beaty, Christian Wood, Marquese Chriss

It’s a shame bds won’t read this since he won’t see the high marks I have for his squad. I fully expect this team to make the playoffs in at least 2 leagues. The leagues where Capela doesn’t play as many minutes, I think the team is going to have a bit of trouble on the boards. Bron + Cheeks in the back court means teams with double barrel backcourt usage will be facing two elite defenders. Favors / Williams / Wood / Chriss make a formidable SF rotation. Zelmo is a fine backup for Ewing; Christie for Cheeks. Yeah, Westbrook was controversial, but it was where he was drafted that was controversial IMO, not the pick himself. I feel confident that he would have been there in round 8, but as I’ve always said, if your guy is there and you’re worried he won’t be next time, pull the trigger. Even if I (or others) see the pick as a mistake, it’s okay, because not a single owner put together a perfect draft. Except for maybe Ben. But Ben’s gonna Ben.


tarheel1991 - Michael Jordan, Shawn Marion, Pau Gasol, Brent Barry, Paul Millsap, Wes Unseld, Jon Barry, Kyle O'Quinn, Carmelo Anthony, Gordon Hayward, T.J. McConnell, D'Angelo Russell

This team seems like an extremely low towel (credit to jcred for the term) team with a lot of strength in a lot of areas, but it just seems to be lacking, I don’t know, something to make it stand out to me. It really seems like the typical in-the-clog range team, and while tarheel is a top notch owner, I don’t think any amount of tweaking can take an in-the-clog team up to the next level. I’ve been wrong before, though, and I’ll be wrong again. It’s highly possible I’m wrong this time!


mikee1 - Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Ray Allen, Charles Oakley, Paul Silas, Enes Kanter, Terrell Brandon, Victor Oladipo, Michael Redd, Kris Humphries, Julius Randle, Kevon Looney

Parts of this team look too much like my team from last year, which is a bad thing. It’s way better than my team was, though, so don’t sweat that. There’s a lot about this squad I like, but there’s parts I don’t care for as much. I think Allen went way too high again this season, but your selection of Terrell Brandon really made up for it. That’s a mean backcourt, especially with Oladipo’s one elite season and Redd’s pair of nice complimentary ones. Boards seem solid. Defense seems solid for the most part. Again, I expect a good team, but I just don’t see it being head & shoulders better in enough areas to rise above the clog.


goetz93 - Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, Mookie Blaylock, Anthony Mason, Joel Embiid, Andrew Bogut, Otto Porter, Dan Roundfield, Troy Murphy, Nicholas Batum, Cheick Diallo, Benoit Benjamin

There are parts of this team I love & parts I don’t. I see parts of an elite team buried in here, and I see parts of a team that misses the playoffs. How you put everything together is going to be important (no ****, Ash, that’s universally true). I understand almost every player on here - specifically why they’re on here - but I just am not sure it glues together just right. Again, I expect some teams in the playoffs, but I’m just not sure if the efg% superiority this squad has (and it does) is going to be enough to get it out of the clog.


mptrey - Chris Paul, Kawhi Leonard, Horace Grant, Bob Lanier, Dirk Nowitzki, Tree Rollins, Kevin Johnson, Ryan Anderson, Jayson Tatum, Domantas Sabonis, Fred Hoiberg, Steve Blake

I absolutely loved the start of this squad. CP3 is the kind of PG you need with Kawhi, and Horace was a really nice addition in the third round. I like Tree & Lanier together down low. Anderson is a really nice SF depth piece in this league. KJ is a nasty (in a good way) compliment to CP3. Sabonis was a nice pickup. I’m not real sure how Tatum, Dirk, Hoiberg and Blake all fit into this, but it seems like you were going for the best player available approach, and that doesn’t always lead to things making sense on a micro scale. I think that one of your playoff teams might even be competitive for a ship in that league, but I just don’t see you being as competitive on a five-team scale as you were last season.


amerk1180 - David Robinson, Andre Drummond, Andrei Kirilenko, Anfernee Hardaway, Paul Pierce, Chris Andersen, Jason Terry, Brandan Wright, Jusuf Nurkic, Darren Collison, Thomas Robinson, Dell Curry

I know I expressed my doubts about the Admiral & Drummond before, but I’ve had a change of heart. I actually really like the pair. I think you’ll be fighting for the playoffs in at least the two good Penny years with this combo (and the one superb ak47), and I like how the Truth, Birdman, and Jet II all fit with the core. I really liked Wright as well. After that, though, your draft really seemed to lose focus. Choosing the right Pierce seasons in the good Penny years will be the key to being super competitive those years. I think you’re in the thick of the clog but will get in the playoffs at least once, maybe twice with those Penny seasons.


pexetera - Kevin Garnett, Dwyane Wade, Nikola Jokic, Donyell Marshall, Jimmy Butler, Kenneth Faried, Ed Davis, Kyle Anderson. Larry Nance, Jr, David Lee, Delon Wright, Ivica Zubac

I almost put this team in tier 1. I know some people were wondering if you were ever going to take a point guard, but when you look at Jokic & KG’s assists, D-Wade has more than enough to fill that role admirably. It’s another typical Pex defensive + board squadron, and I like every player on here other than the guy you built the team around. I just don’t like KG in competitive leagues. I also realize that he does have strengths that don’t really fit with my style, and that you can build a successful team around him. I think you have, and if I didn’t limit my tier 1 to six teams, you’d be up there.


robusk - Kevin Durant, Tyson Chandler, Clyde Drexler, Terry Porter, Emeka Okafor, Samuel Dalembert, Lamar Odom, Goran Dragic, Joel Przybilla, Danny Granger, Darrell Armstrong, Brandon Ingram

I don’t love this team. I like many parts of it, but I think the mistake came with Drexler. He does a lot of stuff well, but shooting isn’t one of them (only one season above 51% efg). Fortunately, you have excellent efg% all around him and what looks to be plenty of assists. I think you still went a little too light on offensive boards (though Drexler does help with that tremendously) for this format, but maybe not. I don’t know. You’re a top notch owner and there’s nothing about this team that screams obvious mistake, but it just doesn’t scream elite to me, either.


dh555 - Larry Bird, Jason Kidd, Buck Williams, Kobe Bryant, Dale Davis, Kermit Washington, Marcin Gortat, Tracy McGrady, Brandon Roy, Ty Lawson, Jamaal Tinsley, Will Perdue

I was with you till Kobe, and while I understood your reasoning - and think he’s fine in this format - I just don’t like teams that don’t have a primary paint monster, which is probably what I didn’t like about Rob’s team, come to think of it. Too many times having those 50%ish efg guys with mid 30s usage will just lose you games almost by themselves. I like so many of the players on this squad, but it just seems like a clog team to me.


cmcafeeky - James Harden, Dikembe Mutombo, Marcus Camby, Marques Johnson, Jerry West, Paul Pressey, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Gatling, Mel Daniels, Nerlens Noel, John Wall, David West

So I loved when dbkc took Harden, and you got him even later, so more value. Even though you took many of the same players, he did something distinctly different from what you have done (it’s not my place to point it out), and time will tell how big of a difference it makes.


jcred5 - Julius Erving, Ben Wallace, Serge Ibaka, Rajon Rondo, Nicola Vucevic, Arvydas Sabonis, Rodney Rogers, Mark Jackson, Caldwell Jones, Blake Griffin, Jason Richardson, Chris Bosh

This is the second team of the tier I almost put into tier 1, and I came back several times before deciding to stick with it here. I absolutely love what you did in every aspect except getting a solid paint-scorer. Had you landed Boozer as you planned, I think I’d have it in tier 1. Vucevic + Sabonis are decent alternatives, but just far enough down that I think you’re going to be at the mercy of the good Doctor. Similar to how Kobe will shoot DH out of some games, the Doc will do that to you despite being consistently better in regards to efg%.


jpevans31 - Dennis Rodman, Klay Thompson, Alonzo Mourning, Derek Harper, Alvin Robertson, Tom Boerwinkle, Joe Ingles, Don Buse, Brad Daugherty, Sam Lacey, Johnny Green, Jae Crowder

I kept bouncing around on this one. One minute I love it, the next, I don’t. You have a ton of really solid guys, I’m just not sure how you’re putting them together, and in this scenario more than just about any other team, that is going to determine a lot. I feel real safe in thinking you’ll be fighting for playoff spots in a couple of leagues, possibly even contending for a title, but I feel real safe in thinking you might lose 50 games with a team. IE - Clogville, or the very definition of this tier. Sidenote: I’ve literally always wanted to put that one Buse season with that one Robertson season - you know the ones - but it just feels like Klay & Derek are superior most years.


jhuskow - Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen, Bill Russell, Montrezl Harrell, Carlos Boozer, Luka Doncic, Pascal Siakam, Robert Covington, Buddy Hield, Theo Ratliff, Baron Davis, Brandon Clarke

I began loving this team so much… and I still like lots of it. I think you kind of lost focus somewhere in the middle of the draft (Hield & Ratliff) before coming back strong at the end. This is the third and final team of tier 2 that I considered for tier 1 before settling on tier 2. It literally has everything I like in a team, I just have this gut feeling that it’ll be a victim of the Clog.


longtallbrad - Deandre Jordan, Tim Duncan, Chauncey Billups, Eric Bledsoe, Al Horford, Cedric Maxwell, Jeff Teague, Yao Ming, J.R. Smith, Andris Biedrins, Jameer Nelson, Antonio McDyess

If we’re just talking about starting 5s, I love this team so much. Where you lost me was on the bench - not that it’s bad, because it’s not - it just doesn’t seem to have the same punch as the starters. I think this is a tough team that I do not want to see in my division (definitely not more than once), and I’ll be surprised if you’re not in the playoffs at least a couple of times, but I just think there are stronger squads in the terms of five overall teams.


ysw128 - Moses Malone, Kevin McHale, Bill Walton, Bradley Beal, Andre Iguodala, Vince Carter, Charlie Ward, Quinn Buckner, Michael Smith, Jeff Ruland, Cole Aldrich, Sedale Threatt

Boards, defense, efg%... I love it. I don’t love the point guard situation, though you did manage to grab some solid picks later on in Ward & Buckner. Again, this is a well constructed team, and it’s not bad - none of these tier 2 teams are - I just don’t think it’s top 6 through five leagues.

Tier One
dBKC - Stephen Curry, Shawn Kemp, Ben Simmons, Joakim Noah, Bo Outlaw, Willis Reed, Josh Smith, George Gervin, Kevin Love, Patrick Beverley, Dejounte Murray, Derrick White

I don’t know if this team makes the playoffs in all five leagues, but I would be absolutely shocked if it doesn’t in at least three… and those three teams that I think will make it will be good enough to win it all (and thus win the Savage Crown). I think dBKC did a great job of drafting around Kemp’s lackluster non-prime seasons, but I’m not sold on the years he doesn’t have Simmons at all. In any case, this is a strong team that I think should be greatly feared.


dskantor - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Nance, Amare Stoudemire, Gerald Wallace, Jose Calderon, Peja Stojakovic, Bismack Biyombo, John Henson, Eddie Jones, Fat Lever, Muggsy Bogues, Swen Nater

Dskantor did a beautiful job of grabbing elite efg% & pairing up elite defenders to cover the below average ones. He wasn’t building a dominant rebounding team, but it was definitely an extremely efficient team (which helps make up for that) but then he really went ham on boards in the later rounds, shoring up the only real weakness I saw. I expect him to be in the mix in all five leagues and in the final six going into the playoffs.


24kpyrite - Shaquille O'Neal, Hassan Whiteside, Draymond Green, Damian Lillard, Joe Dumars, Jonas Valanciunas, C.J. McCollum, Michael Cooper, Jarrett Allen, James Johnson, Richaun Holmes, Dewayne Dedmon

This team started off super strong and didn’t really lose momentum at any point. The backcourt depth is a little thin to me at first glance, but having Draymond dishing out those dimes allows for more flexibility there. Only thing I’m hesitant about is the lack of boards when you don’t have many Whiteside minutes available, but I think the team is so strong in all of the other areas that it’ll be in the mix for sure.


ashamael - Dwight Howard, Walt Frazier, Kyrie Irving, Jerry Lucas, Kemba Walker, Bill Bridges, Javale McGee, Clifford Ray, Mason Plumlee, LARRY SANDERS!, Ron Harper, Amir Johnson

I’m not going to eval my own team. I may do an explain yourself type deal later. I do feel really strongly that I will be in the mix this year, and that’s where I’ll leave it.


pharrop - Giannis Antetokounmpo, Rudy Gobert, Manu Ginobili, Bob McAdoo, Mike Conley, Andrew Bynum, Chris Webber, Kirk Hinrich, Nick Anderson, Rudy Gay, George Hill, Elmore Smith

As the draft was in its early stages, I kept going on about how much I feared this team. The beautiful thing is that in the later rounds, pharrop did an excellent job of matching the best available player with a need created by lack of minutes of the star players. I see no real weakness in this squad, and pharrop is on fire right now having just dominated the ODL, so I see no reason for this squad to not be in the running at the end.


benhoidal - Artis Gilmore, Anthony Davis, Bobby Jones, Deron Williams, Danny Green, Nate McMillan, Chris Mullin, Demarcus Cousins, John Collins, Boban Marjanovich, Jamario Moon, Jordan Bell

After the first three rounds, I thought Ben was the clear favorite. D-Will & Danny Green made an incredible back court for a couple of seasons, but the other teams would probably be kind of weak. He immediately made good back courts for those other teams. Boogie’s about as good a backup for AD as you could hope at that point, Collins is nasty for a couple of seasons, Boban was born to back up Gilmore, and Moon is ideal depth behind Bobby. I don’t see how this team isn’t contending in at least 4 if not all 5 leagues. Oh, and in case you forgot, this isn't just an excellently crafted team, it was crafted by the Sim Devil.

no surprises with the top 3

bds gets a chance at some lebron redemption after his quest for a title with lebron was cut short in the tepl...4 seasons seem like locks to be used but the 5th season choice could be tough

im hoping gerry calling one of his teams king kong means hes using 61-62..probably not the best choice but id be curious to see how much he could average in this league

dbkc getting curry after what he did with harden is bad news for the league...hopefully he doesnt get another 3rd round steal this time - i thought that pick was the key to the success hes had

where will dskantor go? some really good options depending on how you want to build your team

"im hoping gerry calling one of his teams king kong means hes using 61-62..probably not the best choice but id be curious to see how much he could average in this league"

Your instinct is correct, KING KONG will be my highest usg/ scoring Wilt, but I'm leaning either 62-63 or more probably 63-64

Before I won the 2nd pick in the lottery, my list looked like

Lebron clear #1
Wilt clear #2
and then about 3 guys including Steph with no clear order.

Then when I was lucky enough to get the 2nd pick, I had Wilt locked in as my pick....until I started looking at it closer and closer. I won’t go in to the *why*, but I was kind of at a coin-flip between Wilt and Steph at #2 (never thought that’d be the case until I spent way too long examining it after getting the pick) and decided since I had them ranked about equally I would trade for #3 and pick up a slightly higher 2nd and 3rd.

The only thing I really want to get in to is that I definitely have Wilt above Curry in a vacuum, but the Curry teams I mocked out were better than the Wilt teams as a whole - let’s see if I was right. This very well could blow up in my face.