Savage II Commentary Thread Topic

Sorry guys, but I'm out for Savage 2. I think cmcafeeky is taking my place. It's a real struggle to step away but I've got too much on my plate right now. Maybe I'll jump back in for Savage 3 or 4. Good luck to all of you!
8/4/2020 9:30 PM
Posted by kinoa1 on 8/4/2020 9:30:00 PM (view original):
Sorry guys, but I'm out for Savage 2. I think cmcafeeky is taking my place. It's a real struggle to step away but I've got too much on my plate right now. Maybe I'll jump back in for Savage 3 or 4. Good luck to all of you!
That’s a bummer man. Don’t be a stranger.
8/4/2020 9:34 PM
totally understand kinoa. great to have cmac on board to fill your shoes.

8/4/2020 9:41 PM
typical kinoa... dominates then ditches...

No, but I hear you. Good luck with other stuff!
8/4/2020 10:52 PM
did not expect to get Shaq here, especially after kinoa's run in Savage I, but I knew I'd get someone I was confident in building around at 5. The guy I expected to take is still on the board, but I had Shaq just sliiiiiiightly above him on my board.
8/5/2020 2:25 AM
Posted by ashamael on 8/5/2020 2:25:00 AM (view original):
did not expect to get Shaq here, especially after kinoa's run in Savage I, but I knew I'd get someone I was confident in building around at 5. The guy I expected to take is still on the board, but I had Shaq just sliiiiiiightly above him on my board.
That suggests you had one of the guys who went ahead of you #6 or lower on your board. Who was that? Curry?
8/5/2020 7:48 AM
I'm probably going to be less involved in this year's draft than last year's - this is hitting at a much busier time for me at work than the last one - so here are some detailed thoughts no one really cares about on my draft position and opening pick before I get too distracted.

First - I was kinda disappointed to get pick 6 again. Same pick as last season. Now, to be fair, I can't be mad about it - I still think picking at the top of this draft is the best place to be. But picking sixth meant (1) the possibility of having to make the same kinds of decisions on the same groups of players as I did last time, and (2) picking right after what I thought was the cutoff for the elite tier of picks in the league (the three blacklisted players plus Kareem and Shaq). There was a possibility someone would go for a guy outside that tier (I thought Curry was the most likely to drop down, the way Shaq dropped down to 4 last year) but as it turns out it didn't happen. So, stuck picking at a spot where I think there's truly not much differentiation between, say, picks 6-13 or so, but I have the worst 2nd and 3rd round picks of the bunch.

Why did I stay in the slot? (1) I think the concern about picking in the same slot is lessened somewhat by both the addition of the previously blacklisted players and the fact that this league is so new; while the first 2-3 rounds might not be too different; I expect significant variation in draft positions after that point as people realize certain players are more valuable and others less so; (2) I still got to pick a great player, albeit one who was better in real life than in the SIM; (3) I had no idea we started the draft and suddenly it was my turn to pick and I didn't want to hold things up to trade slots.

As for Jordan: I had him #7 on my board but picked him sixth. Party for sentimental reasons - there is one guy who I think probably would have been a "better" SIM pick - but I also think there is a legitimate argument that MJ deserves to go this high. The negatives first: (1) he's a midrange-heavy scorer, a demographic that often underperforms in the SIM; (2) many of his best seasons have very few threes, which presents a real team-building challenge, particularly because (3) for reasons known only to WIS programmers, most of his seasons are only 100% at SG, not PG or SF; (4) some of his seasons have more fouls than you would prefer from a top pick; (5) he generally is very efficient for a tier-1 usage player, but can't match the efficiency of the guys who went in front of him (hence the reason I think those five are in their own tier).

Now for the good: (1) Remarkable consistency to build around - no matter which seasons I pick (88-89, 89-90, and 90-91 are locks, I'm about 90% sure I'll use 95-96, and a few others are in contention), every single one will provide Tier 1 usage (did they set the Tier 1 usage threshold based on MJ seasons? I wouldn't be surprised), good to very good efg%, high FT volume and percentage, 90+ defense, and 3000+ minutes; (2) good perimeter D is hard to come by, and the number of players who provide good perimeter D paired with efficient Tier 1 or 2 usage across multiple seasons can be counted on one hand; (3) good to great assist/rebound numbers for a SG. It just takes so much pressure off of my other picks, especially PG and SF, to check multiple boxes, and lets me focus on covering for MJ's weaknesses.
8/5/2020 9:25 AM
Posted by tarheel1991 on 8/5/2020 9:25:00 AM (view original):
I'm probably going to be less involved in this year's draft than last year's - this is hitting at a much busier time for me at work than the last one - so here are some detailed thoughts no one really cares about on my draft position and opening pick before I get too distracted.

First - I was kinda disappointed to get pick 6 again. Same pick as last season. Now, to be fair, I can't be mad about it - I still think picking at the top of this draft is the best place to be. But picking sixth meant (1) the possibility of having to make the same kinds of decisions on the same groups of players as I did last time, and (2) picking right after what I thought was the cutoff for the elite tier of picks in the league (the three blacklisted players plus Kareem and Shaq). There was a possibility someone would go for a guy outside that tier (I thought Curry was the most likely to drop down, the way Shaq dropped down to 4 last year) but as it turns out it didn't happen. So, stuck picking at a spot where I think there's truly not much differentiation between, say, picks 6-13 or so, but I have the worst 2nd and 3rd round picks of the bunch.

Why did I stay in the slot? (1) I think the concern about picking in the same slot is lessened somewhat by both the addition of the previously blacklisted players and the fact that this league is so new; while the first 2-3 rounds might not be too different; I expect significant variation in draft positions after that point as people realize certain players are more valuable and others less so; (2) I still got to pick a great player, albeit one who was better in real life than in the SIM; (3) I had no idea we started the draft and suddenly it was my turn to pick and I didn't want to hold things up to trade slots.

As for Jordan: I had him #7 on my board but picked him sixth. Party for sentimental reasons - there is one guy who I think probably would have been a "better" SIM pick - but I also think there is a legitimate argument that MJ deserves to go this high. The negatives first: (1) he's a midrange-heavy scorer, a demographic that often underperforms in the SIM; (2) many of his best seasons have very few threes, which presents a real team-building challenge, particularly because (3) for reasons known only to WIS programmers, most of his seasons are only 100% at SG, not PG or SF; (4) some of his seasons have more fouls than you would prefer from a top pick; (5) he generally is very efficient for a tier-1 usage player, but can't match the efficiency of the guys who went in front of him (hence the reason I think those five are in their own tier).

Now for the good: (1) Remarkable consistency to build around - no matter which seasons I pick (88-89, 89-90, and 90-91 are locks, I'm about 90% sure I'll use 95-96, and a few others are in contention), every single one will provide Tier 1 usage (did they set the Tier 1 usage threshold based on MJ seasons? I wouldn't be surprised), good to very good efg%, high FT volume and percentage, 90+ defense, and 3000+ minutes; (2) good perimeter D is hard to come by, and the number of players who provide good perimeter D paired with efficient Tier 1 or 2 usage across multiple seasons can be counted on one hand; (3) good to great assist/rebound numbers for a SG. It just takes so much pressure off of my other picks, especially PG and SF, to check multiple boxes, and lets me focus on covering for MJ's weaknesses.
Man, you don't have to defend taking Jordan. Howard was the only player I had over him but no argument over taking him. Agree with everything you said.

A lot of why midrange under-performs is just the way defensive positioning works. But Jordan is such a complete player and is great in this format.
8/5/2020 11:07 AM
Malone is actually the guy I had above Jordan on my board. But looking at it further I may actually not think that anymore. I think I would take Malone's 96-97 over any Jordan season. 89-90 is right up there with the best Jordan seasons. But I think I would take 3, maybe 4 Jordan seasons over any other Malone season. And I had forgotten that only 2 of the good Malone seasons have over 70 defense.

As for Dwight - my distaste for his turnovers and, to lesser extent, fouls is well-documented. I think I probably worry about those things too much, but the thought of starting my team in a league like this with such high turnovers from a tier 2/3 usage player would make me pretty nervous.
8/5/2020 11:49 AM
I’m excited to see who Goetz goes with here. This is where the draft gets interesting to me. Lots of directions you can go - once Karl Malone/Dwight are off the board there’s no clear pick IMO.
8/5/2020 12:42 PM
Well db? Thoughts?
8/5/2020 12:51 PM
That’s who I would’ve picked too tbh. It seemed to work pretty well for Pex.
8/5/2020 12:57 PM
Posted by tarheel1991 on 8/5/2020 7:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 8/5/2020 2:25:00 AM (view original):
did not expect to get Shaq here, especially after kinoa's run in Savage I, but I knew I'd get someone I was confident in building around at 5. The guy I expected to take is still on the board, but I had Shaq just sliiiiiiightly above him on my board.
That suggests you had one of the guys who went ahead of you #6 or lower on your board. Who was that? Curry?
My board was
bron
wilt
shaq
howard
kareem
steph
mailman
jordan
barkley
cp3

My perfect place would have been 6 as I was sure steph would go top 5 thus ensuring me shaq, kareem, or howard who, while I do have ranked here, it is a splitting of hairs that changes daily... should’ve made you an offer, but ai had no idea you were considering moving the pick

MJ’s a great pick; I just value big time paint scorers more and typically make them the focus of my team. Something I didn’t do in the first Savage and my record was as our of character as my squad. Getting back to classic ash drafting now.
8/5/2020 2:31 PM
Well, I nailed the top 10 ... well, the ten that got picked. Dskantor messed everything up when he didn’t take Shaq!

Heel, would you have taken Kareem over Jordan?
8/5/2020 2:33 PM
I also got the first ten right. I thought tar would take Dwight, but I said I could also see it being MJ.

ash, you didn't see it but I gave you Shaq and said "This feels like an ash pick."
8/5/2020 2:49 PM
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