Savage II Commentary Thread Topic

benhoidal
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Posted by mptrey on 8/14/2020 9:34:00 AM (view original):
Posted by robusk on 8/14/2020 9:09:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone remember who that dude was that drafted **** *** **** in ODL as a “block” to other owners and then rage quit because he said the rules didn’t explicitly state you must use every player you drafted? Absurd in that he interpreted the rules that way and that he thought we were all thirsty for **** *** ****.
That seems like a viable strategy tbh, don't see the problem. If you want to handicap yourself by taking one less draft pick, just to prevent others from drafting a particular player, be my guest.

EDIT: Unless he just didn't put that player on us roster AT ALL, then I get it. I know I have drafted players in the ODL/DH and only used them for 3-4 mpg, wouldn't mind if someone sat one of their guys on the bench.
Pretty sure this has never happened in the ODL, but it definitely happened in one of the Co-Op leagues I ran that you were a part of. I deleted the forum so I can't say who it was foe sure, but I remember having to take over his team. It was a pretty good team actually, and he straight up refused to play because he had to include one of the guys he drafted.
8/14/2020 10:18 AM
robusk
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Posted by benhoidal on 8/14/2020 10:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by mptrey on 8/14/2020 9:34:00 AM (view original):
Posted by robusk on 8/14/2020 9:09:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone remember who that dude was that drafted **** *** **** in ODL as a “block” to other owners and then rage quit because he said the rules didn’t explicitly state you must use every player you drafted? Absurd in that he interpreted the rules that way and that he thought we were all thirsty for **** *** ****.
That seems like a viable strategy tbh, don't see the problem. If you want to handicap yourself by taking one less draft pick, just to prevent others from drafting a particular player, be my guest.

EDIT: Unless he just didn't put that player on us roster AT ALL, then I get it. I know I have drafted players in the ODL/DH and only used them for 3-4 mpg, wouldn't mind if someone sat one of their guys on the bench.
Pretty sure this has never happened in the ODL, but it definitely happened in one of the Co-Op leagues I ran that you were a part of. I deleted the forum so I can't say who it was foe sure, but I remember having to take over his team. It was a pretty good team actually, and he straight up refused to play because he had to include one of the guys he drafted.
Okay, that must have been it. Clown show.
8/14/2020 10:39 AM
kinoa1
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I remember that. It was a blacklist ODL. His claim was that he drafted **** *** **** to keep the rest of us from drafting him. Problem was, the said player was so bad that he QUIT rather than actually play him. Great strategy!
8/14/2020 11:01 AM
longtallbrad
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That rings a distinct bell, but I haven't played in the ODL for many years. The experience I remember happened in a progressive league. I guess we've had multiple clown shows in the wild world of WISNBA.
8/14/2020 11:16 AM
cmcafeeky
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Posted by kinoa1 on 8/14/2020 11:01:00 AM (view original):
I remember that. It was a blacklist ODL. His claim was that he drafted **** *** **** to keep the rest of us from drafting him. Problem was, the said player was so bad that he QUIT rather than actually play him. Great strategy!
King Kinoa1 ??? !!!
(kneeling).... all hail the KING !!!!

oh mighty King... do my eyes deceive me?
is it you ?

Benhoidal stories of the Game of Thrones have you DEAD ?!?!
killed by foul play no less -
I even delivered the message my Lord

do my eyes DECEIVE me?

are you a GHOST ???.. like Hamlets father??? -
returned with a WARNING ???

or a ZOMBIE perhaps???
please dear King... tell me NOT that you are a White Walker from the far North

I am CONFUSED... as all my picks in this World PROVE - I am CONFUSED

tell us King Kinoa ... TELL US !!!
8/14/2020 11:35 AM (edited)
pharrop
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Just stating, it is really hard to find 1 guy to backup Giannis for 5 seasons. Welcome CWebb...we have all our timeouts.
8/14/2020 11:44 AM
robusk
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Okay so... I ended up with a solve that optimized the divisions and conferences such that you play every team a minimum of 11 times (share a conference at least once) and a maximum of 25 times (share a division no more than twice). I tried a series of much more difficult experiments, starting with a max of 22 and a min of 18, but it was never able to find a solution where there were not at least a couple violations. 11 and 25 was the only min / max where it was able to find a solution that fit the requirements. If someone thinks they can do better than that, then by all means please go ahead. This should be probably about as balanced as we can expect though. There are 28 combinations that play only 11 times, 29 combinations that play only 12 times, 9 combinations that play 24 times and 20 combinations that play 25 times. There are 190 combinations that play between 13 and 23 times.
8/14/2020 1:47 PM (edited)
robusk
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World 1 World 2 World 3 World 4 World 5 Division
14 18 8 4 11 Div 1
3 17 13 20 15 Div 1
7 9 18 5 9 Div 1
13 4 10 8 13 Div 1
12 10 1 1 8 Div 1
15 20 12 6 20 Div 1
9 11 4 7 6 Div 2
6 14 21 2 17 Div 2
8 24 9 21 12 Div 2
10 21 6 10 5 Div 2
16 3 15 17 2 Div 2
24 1 22 12 3 Div 2
20 7 17 11 24 Div 3
17 16 5 9 7 Div 3
19 2 23 16 21 Div 3
23 13 3 3 18 Div 3
22 19 24 22 22 Div 3
1 6 7 13 19 Div 3
11 23 20 15 23 Div 4
21 15 19 19 10 Div 4
18 5 16 23 1 Div 4
4 8 11 24 14 Div 4
5 22 14 18 16 Div 4
2 12 2 14 4 Div 4
8/14/2020 12:52 PM
robusk
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
1 12 16 25 17 17 12 22 12 24 17 17 16 22 11 16 18 19 17 23 20 18 22 17
2 12 17 17 25 23 23 13 11 16 23 23 17 16 12 22 24 16 23 19 22 12 13 11
3 16 17 11 22 17 22 12 19 12 24 22 23 24 18 18 23 12 12 13 16 16 17 24
4 25 17 11 22 22 12 17 22 24 17 12 11 17 16 16 18 24 12 23 25 18 17 12
5 17 25 22 22 23 18 23 11 11 18 23 12 11 17 12 24 16 13 19 17 17 23 16
6 17 23 17 22 23 18 25 23 18 11 20 19 11 19 22 17 11 16 17 17 17 11 16
7 12 23 22 12 18 18 13 11 18 11 23 22 18 17 19 22 16 23 12 22 17 18 23
8 22 13 12 17 23 25 13 23 23 16 25 24 11 24 17 12 16 11 22 12 17 16 16
9 12 11 19 22 11 23 11 23 23 23 13 24 13 24 22 17 18 11 22 17 22 11 18
10 24 16 12 24 11 18 18 23 23 11 23 17 18 12 22 22 23 11 17 19 12 16 18
11 17 23 24 17 18 11 11 16 23 11 11 22 23 17 22 14 18 18 24 22 17 13 18
12 17 23 22 12 23 20 23 25 13 23 11 24 16 24 12 22 16 11 12 17 17 16 11
13 16 17 23 11 12 19 22 24 24 17 22 24 17 25 23 11 17 17 16 11 18 12 12
14 22 16 24 17 11 11 18 11 13 18 23 16 17 22 24 12 18 23 17 17 12 23 25
15 11 12 18 16 17 19 17 24 24 12 17 24 25 22 13 11 17 17 16 16 23 22 17
16 16 22 18 16 12 22 19 17 22 22 22 12 23 24 13 11 12 24 16 11 18 19 19
17 18 24 23 18 24 17 22 12 17 22 14 22 11 12 11 11 17 17 25 18 16 22 17
18 19 16 12 24 16 11 16 16 18 23 18 16 17 18 17 12 17 23 17 24 19 18 23
19 17 23 12 12 13 16 23 11 11 11 18 11 17 23 17 24 17 23 22 17 24 25 23
20 23 19 13 23 19 17 12 22 22 17 24 12 16 17 16 16 25 17 22 13 16 17 12
21 20 22 16 25 17 17 22 12 17 19 22 17 11 17 16 11 18 24 17 13 23 12 22
22 18 12 16 18 17 17 17 17 22 12 17 17 18 12 23 18 16 19 24 16 23 24 17
23 22 13 17 17 23 11 18 16 11 16 13 16 12 23 22 19 22 18 25 17 12 24 23
24 17 11 24 12 16 16 23 16 18 18 18 11 12 25 17 19 17 23 23 12 22 17 23
8/14/2020 12:52 PM
robusk
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For transparency, last season there were 17 combinations that never shared a conference (played 10 times) and 5 combinations that played more than 25 times. There were 175 combinations that played between 13 and 23 times. This was the matrix from last season:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
1 17 23 24 24 18 17 24 25 13 24 19 17 17 10 17 17 10 16 17 12 16 17 16
2 17 24 23 23 24 20 18 12 19 18 23 16 11 23 11 11 23 12 11 16 17 16 22
3 23 24 19 22 23 19 12 23 25 24 14 10 22 17 10 17 12 18 10 22 16 12 16
4 24 23 19 23 22 18 18 14 24 25 23 16 11 11 11 18 16 22 16 18 10 16 12
5 24 23 22 23 24 18 15 24 12 23 18 23 11 11 18 11 16 10 18 16 17 16 17
6 18 24 23 22 24 19 24 18 23 12 24 12 17 17 22 10 12 16 17 10 18 17 11
7 17 20 19 18 18 19 23 22 24 23 23 11 11 23 16 16 23 17 16 11 12 16 12
8 24 18 12 18 15 24 23 24 22 18 23 18 16 16 23 16 11 10 23 11 17 11 17
9 25 12 23 14 24 18 22 24 23 24 24 12 17 10 22 22 10 11 12 17 11 17 16
10 13 19 25 24 12 23 24 22 23 19 24 10 22 12 10 22 17 23 10 17 16 12 11
11 24 18 24 25 23 12 23 18 24 19 23 16 11 16 11 13 11 17 16 23 10 16 17
12 19 23 14 23 18 24 23 23 24 24 23 11 13 16 16 11 16 17 11 11 12 28 10
13 17 16 10 16 23 12 11 18 12 10 16 11 23 23 20 23 23 17 25 23 24 18 19
14 17 11 22 11 11 17 11 16 17 22 11 13 23 18 23 23 23 19 23 18 29 15 17
15 10 23 17 11 11 17 23 16 10 12 16 16 23 18 23 23 25 19 18 23 14 23 19
16 17 11 10 11 18 22 16 23 22 10 11 16 20 23 23 23 23 12 25 13 19 18 24
17 17 11 17 18 11 10 16 16 22 22 13 11 23 23 23 23 23 24 13 25 12 18 19
18 10 23 12 16 16 12 23 11 10 17 11 16 23 23 25 23 23 19 18 13 24 18 24
19 16 12 18 22 10 16 17 10 11 23 17 17 17 19 19 12 24 19 17 24 23 29 18
20 17 11 10 16 18 17 16 23 12 10 16 11 25 23 18 25 13 18 17 23 29 18 24
21 12 16 22 18 16 10 11 11 17 17 23 11 23 18 23 13 25 13 24 23 17 23 24
22 16 17 16 10 17 18 12 17 11 16 10 12 24 29 14 19 12 24 23 29 17 19 28
23 17 16 12 16 16 17 16 11 17 12 16 28 18 15 23 18 18 18 29 18 23 19 17
24 16 22 16 12 17 11 12 17 16 11 17 10 19 17 19 24 19 24 18 24 24 28 17
8/14/2020 1:47 PM (edited)
tarheel1991
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Posted by robusk on 8/14/2020 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Okay so... I ended up with a solve that optimized the divisions and conferences such that you play every team a minimum of 11 times (share a conference at least once) and a maximum of 25 times (share a division no more than twice). I tried a series of much more difficult experiments, starting with a max of 22 and a min of 18, but it was never able to find a solution where there were not at least a couple violations. 11 and 25 was the only min / max where it was able to find a solution that fit the requirements. If someone thinks they can do better than that, then by all means please go ahead. This should be probably about as balanced as we can expect though. There are 28 combinations that play only 11 times, 29 combinations that play only 12 times, 9 combinations that play 24 times and 20 combinations that play 25 times. There are 190 combinations that play between 13 and 23 times.
Sounds good. Nerd.
8/14/2020 2:22 PM
robusk
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Posted by tarheel1991 on 8/14/2020 2:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by robusk on 8/14/2020 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Okay so... I ended up with a solve that optimized the divisions and conferences such that you play every team a minimum of 11 times (share a conference at least once) and a maximum of 25 times (share a division no more than twice). I tried a series of much more difficult experiments, starting with a max of 22 and a min of 18, but it was never able to find a solution where there were not at least a couple violations. 11 and 25 was the only min / max where it was able to find a solution that fit the requirements. If someone thinks they can do better than that, then by all means please go ahead. This should be probably about as balanced as we can expect though. There are 28 combinations that play only 11 times, 29 combinations that play only 12 times, 9 combinations that play 24 times and 20 combinations that play 25 times. There are 190 combinations that play between 13 and 23 times.
Sounds good. Nerd.
8/14/2020 2:38 PM
ashamael
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Posted by robusk on 8/14/2020 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Okay so... I ended up with a solve that optimized the divisions and conferences such that you play every team a minimum of 11 times (share a conference at least once) and a maximum of 25 times (share a division no more than twice). I tried a series of much more difficult experiments, starting with a max of 22 and a min of 18, but it was never able to find a solution where there were not at least a couple violations. 11 and 25 was the only min / max where it was able to find a solution that fit the requirements. If someone thinks they can do better than that, then by all means please go ahead. This should be probably about as balanced as we can expect though. There are 28 combinations that play only 11 times, 29 combinations that play only 12 times, 9 combinations that play 24 times and 20 combinations that play 25 times. There are 190 combinations that play between 13 and 23 times.
I think that's probably better than anybody else could do. 25 times means they're in your division 2x and conference the other 3x, right? That's still kind of brutal, but I point back to 5x6x4 = it ain't gonna be balanced. This looks probably the best it could be.

What did 11 & 24 (or 12 & 24) look like? How many combinations above 24 (or below 12) happened? Or did you even try that pair? If not, I'm not asking you to try it, I'm just curious as to what it looked like if you did.
8/14/2020 3:58 PM
robusk
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Posted by ashamael on 8/14/2020 3:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by robusk on 8/14/2020 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Okay so... I ended up with a solve that optimized the divisions and conferences such that you play every team a minimum of 11 times (share a conference at least once) and a maximum of 25 times (share a division no more than twice). I tried a series of much more difficult experiments, starting with a max of 22 and a min of 18, but it was never able to find a solution where there were not at least a couple violations. 11 and 25 was the only min / max where it was able to find a solution that fit the requirements. If someone thinks they can do better than that, then by all means please go ahead. This should be probably about as balanced as we can expect though. There are 28 combinations that play only 11 times, 29 combinations that play only 12 times, 9 combinations that play 24 times and 20 combinations that play 25 times. There are 190 combinations that play between 13 and 23 times.
I think that's probably better than anybody else could do. 25 times means they're in your division 2x and conference the other 3x, right? That's still kind of brutal, but I point back to 5x6x4 = it ain't gonna be balanced. This looks probably the best it could be.

What did 11 & 24 (or 12 & 24) look like? How many combinations above 24 (or below 12) happened? Or did you even try that pair? If not, I'm not asking you to try it, I'm just curious as to what it looked like if you did.
The main issue with the other runs (I tried every min from 11 to 18 and every max from I think 21 to like 28 or something) wasn't the total count of what I would call good combinations. It was generally that the outlier combinations that violated the min/max were numbers like 35 and stuff. And I just didn't care for outliers that far out of bounds. I experimented with various penalties and stuff but this end result I posted was the best quality I think.
8/14/2020 4:03 PM
ashamael
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Well, 20 that play 25 times sounds much better than 35 that play 25 or more times, so I'd say that's 100% the right call!
8/14/2020 4:09 PM
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