Posted by dahsdebater on 10/22/2020 3:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 10/22/2020 11:06:00 AM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 10/22/2020 10:50:00 AM (view original):
The Dems/Libs have repeatedly proven over the last 4 years that there is no limit to the depths they will sink to (the lies, game-playing, looting and destruction for starters), in order to try to get what they want. Should Biden win, I have no doubt we will see 13 or more SC Judges. Then the next time the Repubs hold the cards, we'll see more, and so on. That's how far the two Parties have drug down the Political system in this Country. Neither gives a d*mn about you, me or any other citizen. Neither gives a d*mn about this Country, it's past, or it's future. All they worry about is power, power, power. It's sad to watch.

The Republicans threw away all norms by refusing to vote on Merrick Garland, then did a complete 180 on all of their arguments this year simply because they wanted more power.

By the way, I'm not sure if I support court packing, but there needs to be some change to the process to even out the balance or make it more fair. The Republicans have tarnished the legimacy of the court. In my view, a 6-3 conservative court is illegitimate. Of course, the Republicans have no shame. The Democrats get nowhere by playing by the rules, "when they go low, we go high." We need to beat them at their own game.

Why is a 6-3 Republican court "illegitimate?"

I don't like the politics of how it gets that way, but everything was, in fact, done in complete accord with the law. There's nothing illegitimate about it.

you don't have a problem with the republicans refusing to even consider Merrick Garland when Obama nominated him because it was an election year, but going ahead with the Comey hearings even though it is an election year?

I said I don't like how the court got these margins. But it's legal.

On a more practical note, a state of DC would be insolvent. The median income is much lower than in the surrounding areas (Fairfax County, Arlington County, Alexandria, Falls Church, Howard County, Montgomery County in particular) and the infrastructure costs/housing prices are through the roof. Many of the highest earners are Federal employees paid in their home states. DC is heavily subsidized for infrastructure maintenance, even outside the Federal buildings. I think per capita the most negative tax contributor in the country. As an independent state they couldn't rely on outside money and, at best, what is currently a very clean city with decent public transit would go downhill fast. More likely they would very quickly be a bankrupt state.

Posted by tangplay on 10/22/2020 4:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 10/22/2020 4:14:00 PM (view original):
I agree with all of that. I still don't think you can call the court "illegitimate." I also don't think there's anything you can do to reverse the problem that isn't far less legitimate than what's happened so far.

I don't disagree that a response would push the court further into partisan territory. The issue is that we're already there.

Look at this from the perspective of the Democrats. They're tried to maintain the legitimacy of the court. In their view, the Republicans ended that with Garland. They've cemented it with ACB. If they try to go back to status quo and cool things down, the Republicans will only exploit that further. They don't care, so why should the Democrats hurt themselves to save an institution that's already gone?

It's a tough situation that I (and the Democratic Party) wish we weren't in. Blame Mitch McConnell.

You're always asking for solutions. What's your solution?

It was 9 judges for 9 circuit courts. There’s 13 circuit courts now.

And adding justices is constitutional and legitimate.

Graham said a president serves 4 years not 3. They said they needed a 9th judge right away. They made these new norms, they can live with them.

Reagan’s solicitor general came out and said Biden should consider adding justices.

Does anyone on the left remember Harry Reid and the nuclear option? Y'all have only yourselves to blame.

Sweet christ does the left whine if absolutely everything doesn't go their way. Y'all are probably gonna take the house, senate, and presidency...how about you leave just this one check and balance to keep the far left from unleasing their full violent crazy on us. I wish there was a student of Soviet history here.

There is no point in trying to have rational discussion with any of the Leftists here. They already know everything about everything, and that their way is the best and only way.

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 10/22/2020 4:45:00 PM (view original):
Does anyone on the left remember Harry Reid and the nuclear option? Y'all have only yourselves to blame.

Sweet christ does the left whine if absolutely everything doesn't go their way. Y'all are probably gonna take the house, senate, and presidency...how about you leave just this one check and balance to keep the far left from unleasing their full violent crazy on us. I wish there was a student of Soviet history here.

Why did Reid do that with federal justices (and not the Supreme Court)?

Nice try. It was McConnell, again. His rule is “I can do it.” Well, that’s the norm now.

Blame Mitch, billguitareander.

and if Dems take the house, senate, and presidency, after McConnell pulled what he did, I’d say that the people would want judges added.

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 10/22/2020 4:45:00 PM (view original):
Does anyone on the left remember Harry Reid and the nuclear option? Y'all have only yourselves to blame.

Sweet christ does the left whine if absolutely everything doesn't go their way. Y'all are probably gonna take the house, senate, and presidency...how about you leave just this one check and balance to keep the far left from unleasing their full violent crazy on us. I wish there was a student of Soviet history here.

I wish you would stay retired like you said you would.

Posted by dahsdebater on 10/22/2020 4:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 10/22/2020 4:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 10/22/2020 4:14:00 PM (view original):
I agree with all of that. I still don't think you can call the court "illegitimate." I also don't think there's anything you can do to reverse the problem that isn't far less legitimate than what's happened so far.

I don't disagree that a response would push the court further into partisan territory. The issue is that we're already there.

Look at this from the perspective of the Democrats. They're tried to maintain the legitimacy of the court. In their view, the Republicans ended that with Garland. They've cemented it with ACB. If they try to go back to status quo and cool things down, the Republicans will only exploit that further. They don't care, so why should the Democrats hurt themselves to save an institution that's already gone?

It's a tough situation that I (and the Democratic Party) wish we weren't in. Blame Mitch McConnell.

You're always asking for solutions. What's your solution?

Sure. I just said that I'm uncomfortable with court packing, so I probably wouldn't do that. I would give statehood to DC (if it's realistic) and Puerto Rico (if they want it). I would pass term limits on the court. More importantly, I would also pursue policies that encourage voter participation. Passing the John Lewis act is a good start. Felons should be able to vote. I'm definitely open to other ideas as well. I don't really care about norms post-Trump, tbh. I don't think the Democrats will ever go anywhere without stooping to the level of the Republicans.

Of course, none of this really matters. The Democrats are cowardly and ineffective. I guarantee that they will not take advantage of even a Democratic Senate, House, and Presidency.

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 10/22/2020 4:45:00 PM (view original):
Does anyone on the left remember Harry Reid and the nuclear option? Y'all have only yourselves to blame.

Sweet christ does the left whine if absolutely everything doesn't go their way. Y'all are probably gonna take the house, senate, and presidency...how about you leave just this one check and balance to keep the far left from unleasing their full violent crazy on us. I wish there was a student of Soviet history here.

Yeah, the Democrats are horrible at playing politics because the Republicans are always more shameless than they are. That's why I don't support court packing either. Abolishing the filibuster would probably go the same way (even though I still support it).

Republicans had the House, Senate, Presidency, and Supreme Court from 2017-2018. Were you concerned about their far-right agenda then? When have Democrats ever effectively capitalized on their power? God, I wish the Democratic Party were as bold and shameless as you make them sound. Nancy ******* Pelosi and Chuck Schumer aren't going to pass any "far-left" legislation.

This isn't about "not everything going our way." It's about the Republicans blatantly violating not only Democratic norms but also their own principles in order to gain power. The Democrats should respond. Here's the thing, though. While the Republican power-grabs only serve to benefit their own interest, Democratic ones would probably make the country a better place.

Excellent point from Uofa as well. If the people vote for Democrats in the House, Senate, and Presidency, clearly they want the Democratic agenda passed in some way. They probably don't want a 6-3 court.

It’s obvious that the Republicans aren’t even trying to get the most votes anymore. Gerrymandering, play to the electoral college, these district court and Supreme Court decisions re: voting rights, the lie after lie about protecting pre-existing conditions, etc

Everyone with a pulse sees they think that the 6-3 means they can do what they want by minority rule.

Once again, blame Mitch for all of this, because even Schumer, Tester, Manchin, and Coons are talking about “court reform.”

Yall really should’ve left your Fox News safe space. You been hitting the Hannity crack pipe for so long you believed your hype. Everyone knows you never get high on your own supply.

Take freakin Hawley, “I want a judge who will overturn Roe v Wade,” someone tells him it’s supported by 75% of people and ABC is gonna have to talk about it, “err never mind.” And he’s supposed to be a bright rising star.

Nah. If the Dems get a trifecta y’all asked for this.