Posted by strikeout26 on 2/12/2021 9:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/1/2021 10:46:00 PM (view original):
Like her or dislike her, everyone should take the time to listen to AOC recount her experiences during the capitol riot. Horrifying.

You mean the account where she was freaking out looking for a drawer to hide in while Katie Porter was sitting at her desk drinking coffee looking at AOC like she was crazy?

I’m not discounting the gravitas of her feelings that day. What happened was horrible and some of the insurrectionists seriously meant to do harm. There’s no denying that. But AOC is also a drama queen and has lost a lot of credibility since entering the spotlight with her constant exaggerations and hyperbole.

I don't think I would equivocate "having trauma and being more upset about a situation than others might be" and "being a drama queen."

Posted by all3 on 2/12/2021 11:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Uofa2 on 2/12/2021 7:30:00 PM (view original):
I still can’t get over this.

Imagine the reaction if Biden, Pelosi, or Schumer had addressed an "Antifa" rally and said "let's go to the police station and fight; I'll go with you; you can go by different rules" and the crowd then smashed its way into the station, murdering and maiming police officers. Imagine if the mob, as it attacked police, chanted "fight for Biden," "no Pelosi no peace," or "Schumer sent us," while Democratic leaders tweeted at them "we love you" and "remember this day forever."

You have to use your imagination, because nothing like this ever happened.

I think you had better go listen to the clips that Trump's defense played this morning, featuring remarks from Pelosi, Biden and a few others.
You'll need to retract that last part after you do.

This is clearly, obviously a false equivocation.

I think the riot was very obviously incited by Trump. Do we think there might be a difference between one supporter doing a crazy action because they completely misunderstand a politician's statements, and a whole mob of thousands of people going directly from a politician's speech to the capitol where they attempt to stage a coup?

Here's another difference: Obama advocating for police reform (I don't think he ever said that all cops are bad people) and Bernie advocating for healthcare reform doesn't naturally translate to their supporters doing a hate crime; clearly, the message was misinterpreted. However, if you genuinely believe that the election was rigged and that you have the power to overturn it because the President wants you to storm the capitol (which was the belief of the group), then storming the capitol is a natural, logical action. Trump also clearly supported the rioters, especially at the beginning - see the Pence tweet, him calling them "very special," and continuing to claim fraud. He only changed his stance at the last second when PR pushed against him.

I also think you can make an argument for dissuading future politicians from clearly lying about election results. Do we all understand the gravity of what Trump has done? He set the precedent where Republicans are just going to claim in every future election that they actually won, file a bunch of frivolous lawsuits, and attempt to overturn the results. Hey, if we ever get a Republican legislature, they might pull it off. See Pennsylvania's Congress. This sort of action probably needs to be deterred.

One more contradiction: If we believe that all of the supporters at the capitol were insane and misinterpreting Trump's message, convicting them won't deter future riots. Obviously, they weren't acting rationally. If we accept that the supporters were logically interpreting Trump's messaging, not only on the 6th but also going back to November and even before that, then convicting Trump probably will deter future crimes.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/12/2021 11:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 2/12/2021 10:59:00 PM (view original):
Anyone intellectually honest knows he’s guilty of inciting the event on January 6th. Just ask the people who did the storming.

obama and Bernie didn’t spend months inciting anyone. Telling lies to incite anyone. Planning the event on the day of certification. Man, open your eyes. You’re smarter than this.

He knew Pence was in Danger and he threw gas on that fire with a tweet talking **** about trump right after he gets the call from Tuberville.

the majority of the insurrections were detained? Uh no. That’s an opinion right there. One I’m not sure is right.

Throw the book at this dumbass and politicians won’t try this **** again. There will ALWAYS be rubes that follow idiots like Trump or Jim Jones.

I don’t think the question is whether he incited the riot, but rather if you can prove that he incited the riot. Feeling that he incited the riot is not enough to convict.

Obama and Biden did spend months telling lies (using hyperbole at a minimum), which led to the tragedies. Obama spent months telling Americans that police were bad people. An Obama supporter went out and shot 5 cops. Bernie spent months saying that the Republican health care plan was to kill people. A Bernie supporter went and shot up a congressional baseball game.

A majority of the insurrectionists have been arrested. That’s not my opinion. That’s a fact. See link below:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1%3famp

All in all, I could give two ***** if they convict him. I thought he was a scumbag in 2015 when he decided to run and he has proven that to be true as nauseum. My point is that I don’t think a legal standard has been met to convict him. Feelings aren’t evidence.

Welcome back!!

This "trial" is an impeachment. Legal standards are advisory. Only. The Senate makes the rules.

Imagine IF things were reversed. A bunch of crazy rile-up armed leftists attacking the Capitol. You think anyone in authority would have resisted using "deadly force" to stop the mob from entering?? Not a chance. We'd have had scores of deaths/injuries.

This 1/6 "event" was pre-planned. Orchestrated by Trump. He invited them to come, told them it would be "wild". Asked for the help of nutjob "delusional" self-described Patriots to come and "stop the steal". Many did, at his DIRECT invitation. Guys with horns, spears, and mental illness. Girls without any sense of History or common sense. When they "reacted" at the Capitol he encouraged them, praised them, called them wonderful.

This man just tried to overthrow our democracy and you FOOLS are still trying to excuse him.
Pull your collective heads out of your collective *****!!!

This man should be impeached. Then tried for criminal activity (of which there is plenty to choose from), then convicted and hung from the nearest yardarm!!

Then, maybe just maybe, miscreants and stupid folks won't ever again think they can loot and riot their way to power in this Country. The good 'ol U.S.A.

HANG HIM HIGH!!!

I don’t know about hanging him but I agree with everything else you said bob. He’s guilty. We ALL saw it. If you’re denying it, you’re living in the same FANTASY as his idiot lawyers. None of it matters. The rebublicans are TERRIFIED of him. They are liars and embarrassments. Matt Gaetz? Gym Jordan? Rand Paul? Hawley? Boebert?? Taylor-Green??? Are you kidding me????????

Can you really not see that these are decidedly NOT GOOD PEOPLE?

This whole thing is a necessary farce. It had to be done by Dems regardless of the relative certainty that the senate would let him walk. I hoped it would expose these senators, and it HAS... but the “base” doesn’t give a damn. We’re still left with a good chunk of the country filled with ignorant sycophants, worshippers of lunatic fringe conspiracies, the uneducated and fear-mongered, the naive, the racist and WORST of ALL...the partisan hacks who let it all happen.

When does REALITY and TRUTH matter? When is TRUTH not “debateable” again? When do you just admit you were wrong?

Truth, like people should be held responsible for their own actions?
Truth, like Democrats/Liberals have been saying things similar to Trump, only in reverse, for over 4 years?

Don't get me wrong, I hate what Trump said, how he said it, and when he said it, but he didn't "MAKE" anybody do anything that day, just like he didn't "MAKE" people loot and riot in Cities across the Country the last year or so.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/12/2021 9:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/1/2021 10:46:00 PM (view original):
Like her or dislike her, everyone should take the time to listen to AOC recount her experiences during the capitol riot. Horrifying.

You mean the account where she was freaking out looking for a drawer to hide in while Katie Porter was sitting at her desk drinking coffee looking at AOC like she was crazy?

I’m not discounting the gravitas of her feelings that day. What happened was horrible and some of the insurrectionists seriously meant to do harm. There’s no denying that. But AOC is also a drama queen and has lost a lot of credibility since entering the spotlight with her constant exaggerations and hyperbole.

Come on man, we've learned from our good "friends" here, over the last 4+ years, that a Democrat/Liberal would NEVER use any exaggerations or hyperbole to try to make more of something than it is.

Posted by all3 on 2/13/2021 1:27:00 PM (view original):
Truth, like people should be held responsible for their own actions?
Truth, like Democrats/Liberals have been saying things similar to Trump, only in reverse, for over 4 years?

Don't get me wrong, I hate what Trump said, how he said it, and when he said it, but he didn't "MAKE" anybody do anything that day, just like he didn't "MAKE" people loot and riot in Cities across the Country the last year or so.

What should the legal burden be for incitement of insurrection if no one can "make" someone else do something.

No one would ever be guilty of inciting a riot if that were the case.

remember when that girl on social media told some kid to kill himself and he did

she got convicted

obviously a judgement call that depends on the jury and the story they're told

Above bob tells peple to "HANG HIM HIGH!!!".
Does that mean he should go to jail if someone does hang Trump?

I would love for all3 to explain what the legal burden for incitement to violence should be.

That’s simple. It’s already been settled. It’s called the Brandenburg test. Metaphorically saying, “fight like hell” does not pass the test. Trump never directly called for violence. In fact, he did the opposite. He called for those at the rally to “peacefully and patriotically protest.” Based on legal standards, he is 100% innocent. That is indisputable. Now if you want to make the argument that impeachment is not a legal proceeding, but rather a political one that argument can be made, but by all legal standards he is innocent.

As I’ve said before, if you’re going to make this the new political standard, we have a lot of politicians that should be terrified. Almost every politician uses inflammatory rhetoric. Some of that inflammatory rhetoric has led to some very heinous and evil crimes.

I don't deny that Trump would probably not be convicted in a legal court. However, impeachment doesn't have the same burden.

I still don't think what Trump said and did comes even close to anything a Democratic politician has said.

The only one that is in the ballpark is Maxine Waters.

“Metaphorically” doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/14/2021 4:30:00 PM (view original):
That’s simple. It’s already been settled. It’s called the Brandenburg test. Metaphorically saying, “fight like hell” does not pass the test. Trump never directly called for violence. In fact, he did the opposite. He called for those at the rally to “peacefully and patriotically protest.” Based on legal standards, he is 100% innocent. That is indisputable. Now if you want to make the argument that impeachment is not a legal proceeding, but rather a political one that argument can be made, but by all legal standards he is innocent.

As I’ve said before, if you’re going to make this the new political standard, we have a lot of politicians that should be terrified. Almost every politician uses inflammatory rhetoric. Some of that inflammatory rhetoric has led to some very heinous and evil crimes.

He may not have specifically called for violence in this instance but he has called for violence in the past. Why would his followers think he was against violence in this case when he had incited it in the past.