Posted by jpevans31 on 1/19/2021 3:46:00 PM (view original):
Zora, based on that last post of yours, someone could have 24 players on their team. As long as they use someone in one of the two current seasons, they keep the rights to that player? This could lead to a savvy owner stocking up and absolutely running the league.
And the combining both teams' wins to determine lotto odds... Someone could have a decent 50 win team, tank with the other, then potentially add a #1 pick. Combine that with the stocking of up to 24 players (which would lead to some people creating a tanking team + a playoff team), and someone will create a super-dynasty type team. It'll just be a race to see who gets there first. I might've overlooked something before I posted this, but I'm not sure there are enough protections for parity. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
It's an interesting basis for a league, and I'll check back here to see what happens, but as it is now, I'll have to pass. If a few things are addressed, I'd be interested in joining.

jp, this is a work in progress, so I welcome your suggestions. I'm taking them into account even if you still end up choosing not to join.

You bring up a good point with the player stockpiling. To correct this, we will allow a maximum of 12 players to carry forward. If you have more than 12 eligible players to carry forward, you'll have to make cuts. You'll still get 4 draft picks in the rookie/ free agent draft.

I think you also bring up a good point about teams possibly tanking with one team to improve lottery chances. Instead of using combined wins, we'll use only the better of the two seasons to determine the lottery teams. If you have one team that wins 50 games and another that only wins 20, the 20-win team will be ignored for determining the lottery odds. Keep in mind that division winners will still be prohibited from being in the lottery.

Since there are differing opinions on this, I'm going to revert to the original rule, but we'll consider other possibilities to discourage tanking, including possibly only using the better of the two teams' records..

Posted by seapilots on 1/19/2021 3:42:00 PM (view original):
this looks like fun I'll take St. Louis Hawks if still available

Yes, you are in seapilots! Thanks for joining!!

I like the idea of combining the two records for
both teams for the draft. It's something COMPLETELY different and I always enjoyed a good Python show. Obvious tanking is obvious.
Subtle tanking will always happen and it's
difficult to police anyway.

I have a Question on the new rules on the draft. If you carry all 12 of your players over from the initial draft do you still get to draft 4 players in next draft or do you need to cut 4 players beforehand or wait until after the draft to cut players to get to your maximum of 12?
I'm interested in joining but wanted to clarify.

Posted by seapilots on 1/19/2021 4:29:00 PM (view original):
I like the idea of combining the two records for
both teams for the draft. It's something COMPLETELY different and I always enjoyed a good Python show. Obvious tanking is obvious.
Subtle tanking will always happen and it's
difficult to police anyway.

I also like the idea of combining records, but I thought jpevans made a good point about the intentional tanking of one team. I jumped the gun on saying I'd change the rule; I should have asked the other owners who've signed up.. Instead, we'll go with the original rule, but we'll take jpevans' ideas into consideration and possibly put it to a vote. Is that fair?

Posted by rmarsh915 on 1/19/2021 4:34:00 PM (view original):
I have a Question on the new rules on the draft. If you carry all 12 of your players over from the initial draft do you still get to draft 4 players in next draft or do you need to cut 4 players beforehand or wait until after the draft to cut players to get to your maximum of 12?
I'm interested in joining but wanted to clarify.

Thank you for your interest rmarsh915.. Yes, it is my intention that teams will be able to carry forward 12 players + acquire additional players in the draft. The 12-player maximum would be pre-draft.

Posted by zora4preside on 1/19/2021 10:06:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jcred5 on 1/18/2021 10:13:00 PM (view original):
I'll try Boston - thanks!

Question to make sure I understand. If I draft say, John Havlicek. I would choose one of his 67 or 68 seasons for either my 67 or 68 team. Is it the same thing the following season? I decide which Havlicek season, 69 or 70 goes to my team named 67 Boston Celtics or 68 Boston Celtics. Did I get it right?

Thank you for your interst, jcred!

If you draft John Havlicek, you'll have him for the 67-68 season AND the 68-69 season. You'll enter two teams: One will be called the "67-68 Boston Celtics" and will be put in the Eastern Conference, the other will be called the "68-69 Celtics" and be put in the Western Conference. All of the players on the 67-68 team need to be from the 67-68 season, and all the players on the 68-69 team need to be from the 68-69 season. This way the progressive league moves at 2X speed, by playing the 67-68 and 68-69 seasons at the same time, in the same WhatIf league. After the season(s) are over, we'll move on to the next "2X period" (69-70/70-71) where you'd still have Havlicek for both of your teams.

Does that make sense? Still interested? Thanks!

That helps, thanks. And yes still interested.

Posted by zora4preside on 1/19/2021 5:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jpevans31 on 1/19/2021 3:46:00 PM (view original):
Zora, based on that last post of yours, someone could have 24 players on their team. As long as they use someone in one of the two current seasons, they keep the rights to that player? This could lead to a savvy owner stocking up and absolutely running the league.
And the combining both teams' wins to determine lotto odds... Someone could have a decent 50 win team, tank with the other, then potentially add a #1 pick. Combine that with the stocking of up to 24 players (which would lead to some people creating a tanking team + a playoff team), and someone will create a super-dynasty type team. It'll just be a race to see who gets there first. I might've overlooked something before I posted this, but I'm not sure there are enough protections for parity. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
It's an interesting basis for a league, and I'll check back here to see what happens, but as it is now, I'll have to pass. If a few things are addressed, I'd be interested in joining.

jp, this is a work in progress, so I welcome your suggestions. I'm taking them into account even if you still end up choosing not to join.

You bring up a good point with the player stockpiling. To correct this, we will allow a maximum of 12 players to carry forward. If you have more than 12 eligible players to carry forward, you'll have to make cuts. You'll still get 4 draft picks in the rookie/ free agent draft.

I think you also bring up a good point about teams possibly tanking with one team to improve lottery chances. Instead of using combined wins, we'll use only the better of the two seasons to determine the lottery teams. If you have one team that wins 50 games and another that only wins 20, the 20-win team will be ignored for determining the lottery odds. Keep in mind that division winners will still be prohibited from being in the lottery.

Since there are differing opinions on this, I'm going to revert to the original rule, but we'll consider other possibilities to discourage tanking, including possibly only using the better of the two teams' records..

I'm not sure I get jp's scenario here. I don't see how you could effectively build one good team with the other team bad enough to draft high. The vast majorities of players you draft high are good almost every season, not every other. So the team that was bad will quickly recover.

Are we concerned that someone would draft Kareem e.g. Then not use him on one of the teams so they draft high again. Then get a high draft pick and draft Dr. J. then maybe don't use him either on that bad team and draft high again? because you can carry 24 and park them as some kind of "redshirt" season? Is that the concern? If so that person is crazy, but I guess you can put some kind of rule in place to solve for that.

I haven't thought enough about the implications of carrying 24 or 12 so I can't say my opinion. I would recommend zora you stick to the spirit of what you're intending for this league and if carrying 24 is in the spirit of what you intended, keep it and resist the temptation to solve for a problem that hasn't happened yet. But getting feedback is always a good idea and if you like carrying 12 go for it.

Posted by seapilots on 1/19/2021 4:29:00 PM (view original):
I like the idea of combining the two records for
both teams for the draft. It's something COMPLETELY different and I always enjoyed a good Python show. Obvious tanking is obvious.
Subtle tanking will always happen and it's
difficult to police anyway.

Commish legend! Love that idea!!!

I’ll use Michael Jordan as an example. If you drafted the ‘84-85 Jordan he is $9m and played 3100 minutes but the ‘85-86 Jordan was only worth $900k and played just 450 minutes.

your ‘84-85 team should be much better.

I would say a combined record would be better.

Fellas, I appreciate all of the feedback. I spent a lot of time thinking about this league before posting it, but I didn't think of everything. I think all interested parties agree on the general concepts and operation of the league, but there may be some details to work through, RE: draft position and keepers. I'm sure we can all come to an agreement!

jcred, you made some excellent points.

Are we concerned that someone would draft Kareem e.g. Then not use him on one of the teams so they draft high again. Then get a high draft pick and draft Dr. J. then maybe don't use him either on that bad team and draft high again? because you can carry 24 and park them as some kind of "redshirt" season? Is that the concern? If so that person is crazy, but I guess you can put some kind of rule in place to solve for that.

That could be a concern, and we could tailor a rule to prevent that... Something like, "Owners are required to roster all 'under contract' players who have at least 2,000 minutes played in a given season."

I haven't thought enough about the implications of carrying 24 or 12 so I can't say my opinion. I would recommend zora you stick to the spirit of what you're intending for this league and if carrying 24 is in the spirit of what you intended, keep it and resist the temptation to solve for a problem that hasn't happened yet. But getting feedback is always a good idea and if you like carrying 12 go for it.

My original intent was to have as few rules as absolutely necessary, and I didn't think anyone would really try to carry over 24 different players between seasons, so I just wanted to leave it unlimited. We could maybe get rid of the 12-player limit if we enforced the "2,000 minute" rule.

There is another issue I thought of, provoked by jpevans' comments.. What if an owner has fewer than 12 returning players (could be far fewer than 12) and has already traded away (many or all of) his draft picks? We'll need a rule to prevent this.

A few ideas (could be used in some combination):

1. We could bar teams from trading away consecutive future 1st round picks, just like the NBA. If you traded away your 69-70/70-71 1st, you wouldn't be able to also trade away your 71-72/72-73 first.. You would be allowed to trade the 71-72/72-73 1st as soon as the 69-70/70-71 draft was over, provided you hadn't already traded away your 73-74/74-75 1st.
2. We could prevent teams from possessing fewer than 2 (or 3) draft picks in any given draft class
3. We could make 3rd and 4th round draft picks non-tradeable (possibly allowing them to be traded but only in the very next draft)
4. We could get rid of the concept of "free agents" and require all teams to fill both 12-man rosters via additional draft picks beyond 4 rounds (and beyond 12 rounds in the inaugural draft)

It seems like the "combined record" for lottery odds is popular. I actually think there won't be much incentive to tank given the fact that the #12 pick will go to the best team in the league, and that pick will allow the owner to select a player who may have been drafted #6 in a single-season progressive league. Also, the original concept is to put the bottom six (half the league) into the lottery..

Thanks again for the feedback, and thanks to everyone who has joined or expressed interest.. There are two slots still open: Philadelphia 76ers and is one slot open: the Chicago Bulls

Gimme the Sixers.

Posted by HDS1 on 1/20/2021 3:36:00 PM (view original):
Gimme the Sixers.

All right, HDS! They're yours!!

Nice. We're one away. Excited to see this get started

Alright. Let’s go Bulls!