The $/IP and $/PA requirements for OL without AAA aren't really changing much, and the small change they are bringing is only going to serve to shake up some cookies, allow for new ones to be found, and make the league more realistic in terms of player performance. The IP and PA minimums are still in place and the $1.2-1.6m worth of scrubs that most draft either become useable players that increase or have no effect overall on the bottom line cost per IP/PA.

Personal Anecdotes to Follow:

When I draft with AAA in mind, I typically draft no 1B or only ~300 PA of 1B and use AAA there. Or in cases where I plan to fully capitalize on AAA, draft 3400-4000 PA and fill in the remaining 800-1400 with 6 scrubs who get sent down for the AAA guys. Even without AAA, I often draft just 1,040-1,150 IP, with scrubs who get sent down or used as early season fatigue mitigators and then never used again to round up to the 1,200 minimum. That isn't going to change or effect anything with AAA removed.

The only effect is for when I'm intentionally taking advantage of AAA and short drafting... so instead, I just have to draft a full roster, but that's not an impediment to winning in OLs anyways... My current HR bounty team is tracking to win 120 games, only used AAA as a backup C and a PH, and not having them wouldn't have effected my drafting in the slightest and only marginally affected performance (the two AAA players have produced around 3-3.5 wins, over the course of the season, that might push to 4 wins, or roughly 2-2.5 wins more than the scrubs I sent down to call them up) and it's a WAY off-meta HR team in Coors not really using any cookies or AAA.

Not necessarily the HR part (but maybe!), but this change will just have more teams built like this one with 5,300 PA and 1,360 IP, instead of teams streamlining for AAA against newbies who don't know better and are drafting the recommended minimums and wasting AAA.

Though most start with OLs, some don't... I started playing here in early 2000 (different username then), and didn't play in an OL until 2004 (unless you count Spring Leagues as OL), and only then played OL to test sim functions until I started the bounties (mainly to shake things up in OLs) late last year. Even then, most of my OL teams are still test teams.

Back to Overall Thoughts:

This change also closes a WW loophole that allowed teams to stash players in AAA you otherwise couldn't due to the AAA salary cap.

Overall I feel this is a good move. There will be some initial hiccups as people sort out how the change impacts drafting, but the salary and player quality impacts of this decision are the best outcome of this decision regardless of how the rest of this works out long term; though I think it'll be a net positive in new player retention and sim understanding, as well. This single move eliminated a loophole and positively impacted four of the biggest complaints about OLs (randomness, newbie disadvantage, AAA knowledge gap, AAA trading) in one fell swoop.

When does this change go into effect? The reason I’m asking is because I have a team I just finished drafting but if there’s no AAA I’ll definitely have to make a couple changes.

Posted by ML_dad on 2/19/2021 4:39:00 PM (view original):
When does this change go into effect? The reason I’m asking is because I have a team I just finished drafting but if there’s no AAA I’ll definitely have to make a couple changes.

I haven't even seen an official post, just some sort of supposed dialogue with Admin. I don't doubt it'll happen, but unless it is posted somewhere I haven't seen, it's just Admin talking openly about some of the things they are thinking of doing. I'm glad there is some thought going into this product, but I hate hearing things through the rumor mill that may or may not be true.

"As for this hurting newbies more than experienced owners, I don't see it that way. Plenty of newbies never call up their AAA, or use them only for pinch hitting. It was generally veteran owners who were getting their money's worth with AAA." -crazystengel

What?! That is exactly why it DOES hurt newbies. They don't know how to value and plan for using AAA

And I hate when veteran owners in open leagues fleece newbies with AAA trades.

Posted by Area51man on 2/19/2021 5:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ML_dad on 2/19/2021 4:39:00 PM (view original):
When does this change go into effect? The reason I’m asking is because I have a team I just finished drafting but if there’s no AAA I’ll definitely have to make a couple changes.

I haven't even seen an official post, just some sort of supposed dialogue with Admin. I don't doubt it'll happen, but unless it is posted somewhere I haven't seen, it's just Admin talking openly about some of the things they are thinking of doing. I'm glad there is some thought going into this product, but I hate hearing things through the rumor mill that may or may not be true.

It's in the patch notes posted 2/18. Critical News thread: https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=525770

It is an adjustment for everyone to make when drafting, but the playing field is level. We will all get used to it. Many consider Open leagues as for beginners, so why do they need to deal with minor league callups anyway? I don't see this as a big deal. Adam can always add them back in at some point..

If anyone had an advantage using AAA it certainly wasn't newer players. Most couldn't possibly understand the nuances of getting the most from a roster where AAA were available...Quit yer bitchin'...

Posted by TRrrr on 2/19/2021 5:30:00 PM (view original):
"As for this hurting newbies more than experienced owners, I don't see it that way. Plenty of newbies never call up their AAA, or use them only for pinch hitting. It was generally veteran owners who were getting their money's worth with AAA." -crazystengel

What?! That is exactly why it DOES hurt newbies. They don't know how to value and plan for using AAA

And I hate when veteran owners in open leagues fleece newbies with AAA trades.

I think you misread my post. The "this" in my first sentence refers to Admin removing AAA. A previous comment in this thread suggested the change would have a negative impact on newbie owners, more than on experienced owners; I was disagreeing with that comment.

Posted by ML_dad on 2/19/2021 4:39:00 PM (view original):
When does this change go into effect? The reason I’m asking is because I have a team I just finished drafting but if there’s no AAA I’ll definitely have to make a couple changes.

Already live as of the 18th...

But they should at least be exposed to them, then ramp up thereafter. Just like all of us went thru. And from that experience they'd be better prepared for themes, rather than a new toy to figure out on top of an already new to themes disadvantage for a minute.

But this keeps getting watered down. It's not about having them. It's about the all too common planned calculated manipulation of them. Trades. Easy fix : keep them; disallow or limit their movement.

Posted by just4me on 2/19/2021 9:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ML_dad on 2/19/2021 4:39:00 PM (view original):
When does this change go into effect? The reason I’m asking is because I have a team I just finished drafting but if there’s no AAA I’ll definitely have to make a couple changes.

Already live as of the 18th...

With the same budget and roster size ?! Someone mentioned it's ok since it'll open up a formerly less used player pool (more full-timers more expensive worse rates), but it comes at the expense of another pool. Wave goodbye to mid-tier playing time better rates. Or, hello to active roster extra platoons at the expense of another spot, probly an arm.

Someone also mentioned closer to realistic. Ok ? Do most of us really want a #8 hitter who performs like an actual #8 hitter ?! That should be fun !!

Posted by Mwett on 2/19/2021 9:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by just4me on 2/19/2021 9:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ML_dad on 2/19/2021 4:39:00 PM (view original):
When does this change go into effect? The reason I’m asking is because I have a team I just finished drafting but if there’s no AAA I’ll definitely have to make a couple changes.

Already live as of the 18th...

With the same budget and roster size ?! Someone mentioned it's ok since it'll open up a formerly less used player pool (more full-timers more expensive worse rates), but it comes at the expense of another pool. Wave goodbye to mid-tier playing time better rates. Or, hello to active roster extra platoons at the expense of another spot, probly an arm.

Someone also mentioned closer to realistic. Ok ? Do most of us really want a #8 hitter who performs like an actual #8 hitter ?! That should be fun !!

That's what Adam's post said... I asked for clarification on leagues forming, so we'll see...

I don't think it'll end up changing that much in terms of who is drafted and who isn't. For those that relied heavily on AAA it will shift a little, but with how much of a crapshoot AAA was and the overall value you typically could get from AAA (rare stud around 50 RC, most players around 25-35 RC, and the way utilized rarely see most owners getting more than 15-20 RC), the overall impact on roster construction would be minimal.

I know the first team I drafted for an OL that doesn't factor in AAA doesn't look any different from any of my other teams and uses most of the same players on my two most recent teams ("Ezra & Jose..." and "Winning with HR..."). In fact, my pitching staff is unchanged, and offense I swapped Grandal for a slightly cheaper catcher and took Frank Baker at 3B instead of Joyce/Evans/Decines, which is actually more of an upgrade than a downgrade...

Other than that, I often run 1888 Walt Wilmot as an 8/9 hitter (in fact, I think 10 of his 11 historical uses are mine), and find him to be quite valuable as a $3.07m, 600+ PA hitter. In the right ballparks he also puts up respectable AVG (My most recent line from a team in Mile High Stadium - 108 RC, 32 + plays and a .309/.342/.468 slash with 48 SB). I don't see anything wrong or off-putting by teams needing to think about drafting a defense first C/2B/SS/CF for cheap. It definitely adds to the realism and allows the stars (and favorite players) to shine more (PH average line is 63 RC, 23 + plays, .254/.292/.348 slash with 38 SB).

I don't like-at all getting rid of AAA

I think giving them real names and showing their actual salaries and stats would have been a much better solution.

But this new solution is still an improvement.

Posted by jfranco77 on 2/20/2021 9:47:00 AM (view original):
I think giving them real names and showing their actual salaries and stats would have been a much better solution.

But this new solution is still an improvement.

I think my frustration over this move stems from going from plan A to plan Z right away.

changing to real names should have been the first step. Bringing down to below avg should have been second. Adjusting trading (something I still don’t consider an issue) should have been the third step. If after all of those changes, there still needed to be change, then removal could’ve been an option.

but alas I just play the game don’t make these decisions so I’ll play it and give feedback based off what we have

Well said, contrarian.

I think AAA are fun and have a place in the game, but in theme leagues. OL's should be as transparent and straightforward as possible -- the place newbies learn the basics.