From the last message Ccobb12 made, it looks like there will be a warning season, which as I’ve said before is absolutely vital. So as I understand it, once it’s in effect, folks will get a message after a season, or perhaps at the start of one, that their job is in jeopardy. If that’s the case, then really firings will start season 2.

Posted by gillispie on 11/9/2021 4:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 11/9/2021 4:26:00 AM (view original):
bump, if only cuz my Phelan Friars are in perpetual PIT mode.

Once in place, the clock starts from Season One i am guessing?

the way it was described to us, no. when firings come out, people might get fired that very job change. i mean, i think the expectation is, they will. that is the reason for the advance notice which is this thread. unless by 'season one' you mean the original season 1 in each world, and then i guess, yes? but either way, firings will start happening right away, first job change.

however i still haven't seen a CC post or admin sitemail blast, which REALLY would be a good idea to do before these things go out. i said it somewhere else in this thread, i think, but the CC is a really under-utilized communication scheme from admins. they put BS about openings there every season but something like 'hey in 6 months firings are going to start and they will be retroactive because the game just makes us do it that way', seems infinitely more valuable.

Yeah, it would seem that the vast majority of coaches don't check these forums. Any major announcement really should go to the conference chats as well. In fact, it would make a ton of sense if every update (big or small) was posted to all of the CC's. I know the 11/2 update was very small and didn't really impact HD, but some sort of quick message and link in the CC would be great.

Posted by shoe3 on 11/11/2021 2:46:00 PM (view original):
From the last message Ccobb12 made, it looks like there will be a warning season, which as I’ve said before is absolutely vital. So as I understand it, once it’s in effect, folks will get a message after a season, or perhaps at the start of one, that their job is in jeopardy. If that’s the case, then really firings will start season 2.

i think i missed this the first time around, that there'd be a warning season... which i think is good. and maybe more depending where you are in the schedule etc. - but that is still pretty short, now that they are pretty sure firings will happen eventually and what they look like, i think a CC post that lets folks know firings will be coming and what to expect, would probably go a long way. a bunch of us know this is coming but i'm sure a bunch don't, and if you get a message like 'hey your job is in jeopardy you are getting fired next season if you don't make the 2nd round', its not really that easy to do that much about it. i think the more notice, the better, so it seems like now that the design is more or less fixed (or at least close enough) they should let folks know

The third tier should be removed or the time allotted to make an initial NT should be 12 seasons in my opinion. Most of the time third-tier programs are either all sim-signed rosters or rosters with no serviceable players. From examining many examples, the general progression for these (often D+, C- power 6) teams is:

Season 1: Wash, can't recruit in RS1
Season 2-4: Get your own players (although can't compete for power 6 caliber players due to low prestige)
Season 5-7: Make a PI, raise prestige, get better players
Season 8-11: Compete for NT

Of course, there are some coaches that have been able to do it within 7 seasons, but rebuilding a lower prestige power 6 team is one of the harder things to do in HD. The tier 3 logic will lead to the bottom half of power conferences being largely sim-controlled. Just my thoughts.

Posted by trojan4309 on 12/10/2021 12:38:00 PM (view original):
The third tier should be removed or the time allotted to make an initial NT should be 12 seasons in my opinion. Most of the time third-tier programs are either all sim-signed rosters or rosters with no serviceable players. From examining many examples, the general progression for these (often D+, C- power 6) teams is:

Season 1: Wash, can't recruit in RS1
Season 2-4: Get your own players (although can't compete for power 6 caliber players due to low prestige)
Season 5-7: Make a PI, raise prestige, get better players
Season 8-11: Compete for NT

Of course, there are some coaches that have been able to do it within 7 seasons, but rebuilding a lower prestige power 6 team is one of the harder things to do in HD. The tier 3 logic will lead to the bottom half of power conferences being largely sim-controlled. Just my thoughts.

"Season 2-4: get your own players (although can't compete for power 6 caliber players due to low prestige)"

a decent amount of those tier 3 jobs shouldn't get THAT low in prestige. Some of them are really elite jobs. The fact that Texas (or even Tech and A&M) are tier 3 jobs really surprises me. They can be turned around rather quickly. But yes there are some jobs that would be difficult to rebuild in the time window that's proposed.

in theory, the Tier 3 jobs should be noticeably easier to maintain than the Tier 1 jobs. And the tier 1 jobs should be a lot more difficult to sustain. If I had to add my opinion, I feel they're a little too close together. But I don't have the data to prove which direction I would feel needs adjusted.

Firing everybody and their mama isn't a great idea. So I'd probably side with you and say to soften tier 3 some. One thing that wasn't considered when this firing idea came about (which IS good for the game), most of the data that CS was looking at was probably from 2015 to 2020. Maybe not back that far even. But when Adam came aboard, adjustments were made that allowed coaches to blink and they'd be able to qualify for D1. That pushed a lot more coaches to the highest division, and filled up basically all of the power 6 conferences. Now it is a longer process to rebuild the worst of the power 6 schools. And it's likely the data that was used previously to create the firing criteria, doesn't really coincide with current D1 populations

In the end, they'll figure it out. Maybe there needs to be an adjustment as population increase/decrease over time.

A lot goes into this!

You could move some teams into tier 2 or re-create tier 3. My main point is directed at rebuilding a terrible roster with C- or lower prestige in a power conference (which are a fair amount of teams in that tier).

For example, imagine you spend 7 seasons rebuilding a program, and then you’re fired right as you complete the rebuild, gift wrapping the team to someone else that’s able to capitalize on your hard work. I’d be ****** and my drive to play HD wouldn’t nearly be the same.

Posted by trojan4309 on 12/11/2021 11:45:00 PM (view original):
You could move some teams into tier 2 or re-create tier 3. My main point is directed at rebuilding a terrible roster with C- or lower prestige in a power conference (which are a fair amount of teams in that tier).

For example, imagine you spend 7 seasons rebuilding a program, and then you’re fired right as you complete the rebuild, gift wrapping the team to someone else that’s able to capitalize on your hard work. I’d be ****** and my drive to play HD wouldn’t nearly be the same.

I'm in this exact situation at WVU in Knight.... I'm a WVU alum, so although the program was in complete disarray, I still took the job.

Just so everyone understands, my 1st season the team had an overall rating of 49 and C prestige, which dropped to C- after my 1st season... being in one of the best conferences in HD, I knew it would be at least 6-7 years before being competitive. Since then, I've restored the prestige to C and made one PI, but yet to crack the NT over 5 full seasons. However, I am now starting to gain some ground in recruiting but still don't believe I'll be able to compete in our conference for another 2/3 seasons, which will put me on the brink of being fired.

Overall, I think the firing process is great, but I do believe my situation is one in which some users will be fired when they should be given some more time to turn the program around.

Given the aforementioned details, November is unlikely target. Late Dec/January is much more likely to go into effect. I don't want to make formal announcement before testing is complete as timeline could theoretically change if there are issues.

I wonder if they ran into issues, or just taking their time to make sure everything is working as intended. Neither of which I have a problem with.

I am so confused, when does this calculation of seasons for firing go into effect?

Posted by WarLeagle on 1/10/2022 2:18:00 PM (view original):
I am so confused, when does this calculation of seasons for firing go into effect?

You are technically on clock day 1, and have 7 seasons to get your team in shape to meet at least one criteria to keep team. So you may possibly be fired after your 7th season.

If you're asking when will this change be implemented, the devs have confirmed that there will be at least 1 season after its announced to give everyone warning.

Posted by WarLeagle on 1/10/2022 2:18:00 PM (view original):
I am so confused, when does this calculation of seasons for firing go into effect?

a release date hasn't been announced, so presumably at least a couple months yet. but when it goes live, it will be retroactive, so be keeping an eye on those requirements from now on, i think?

I was at the "boosters complaining" stage at xavier in wooden so I moved to hawaii for a one year hiatus. Then I reapplied back to xavier and is as if they never heard of me. Just something I wanted to try - probably not doable with the big 6 schools

"If you're asking when will this change be implemented, the devs have confirmed that there will be at least 1 season after its announced to give everyone warning."
"but when it goes live, it will be retroactive,"

So when it is announced, or when it goes active, whichever date is applicable, it will either be effective one season after the applicable date, whichever that is, or an undetermined period of time retroactively before the applicable date, whichever it is.

I see.

Edited to add: It's kind of fun to come over here and read the HD forums every once in a while.

Posted by CoachSpud on 1/12/2022 3:21:00 PM (view original):
"If you're asking when will this change be implemented, the devs have confirmed that there will be at least 1 season after its announced to give everyone warning."
"but when it goes live, it will be retroactive,"

So when it is announced, or when it goes active, whichever date is applicable, it will either be effective one season after the applicable date, whichever that is, or an undetermined period of time retroactively before the applicable date, whichever it is.

I see.

Edited to add: It's kind of fun to come over here and read the HD forums every once in a while.

sorry for confusion, but its both, as i understand it. when they are ready to go live, they will give us a 1 season warning before putting it live. but then when it goes live, its retroactive.

I guess the late December, January timeframe didn't work out. I'm not in any rush to see it go live, but I wonder what's causing the delay. Did it get pushed back in favor of something more pressing (updating the shop)? Or do they need extra time to fix bugs? Just curious.