If I can use a basketball analogy how many guards in the modern game would you take over Michael Jordan - maybe Lebron James and maybe Seth Curry - and no others even though Jordan rarely took a 3 pointer during the 3 point era and most Star scoring guards are quite adept at the 3.
Quaterbacking is multi dimensional position and a QB with indomitable leadership and deep respect from his team with great talent is the key.
Mahones definitely has it to be sure.

But he is the new king in making until Brady relinquishes the crown which is still atop his head.

Dino = Jetson

Posted by dahsdebater on 10/11/2021 2:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 10/7/2021 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 10/7/2021 12:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 10/7/2021 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Maybe he can eventually get in the top 12 in yards per attempt!!

Some offensive schemes call for less down the field.
Talk to the coach who is one of the best in the business. He is worthy of Canton.
Winning is the name of the game. You need a player who follows the game plan.
Ask Wilt about Russ.
Or K Malone about Rodman.

Brady led the league in air yards thrown last year lmao, he throws a lot of deep passes. But whatever. Isn't the point of football to get yards? Idk why it would be better to throw for 6 yards per attempt vs 8 but hey I'm not a football genius.

Doesn't necessarily apply to Brady, particularly in the Arians offense, but I would say variance is an obvious answer to your question. People might take a yards/attempt a yard or more lower if it comes with low variance and the associated low turnovers. This seems to be why the NFL obviously values Teddy Bridgewater significantly more highly than it does Jameis Winston. Winston has been consistently better throughout his career in terms of yards/attempt but had to take a $5.5 million contract to fight for a starting spot. The Broncos traded a 6th-round pick - not a lot, but something - for the right to pay Bridgewater over $20 million per year to start for them. Last year Carolina gave him that contract. So at least 2 NFL teams value him 4 times as highly as any team valued Winston.

I know you acknowledged it, but it's still important to point out that last year Brady also threw a bunch of interceptions. So he's not efficient and also throws picks now. Also this is why QBR and adj yards/attempt also matters (although I hate how much weight the adjustment puts on touchdown passes).

But yeah, I agree. You can't just look at one metric, you have to get the full picture.

Posted by Jetson21 on 10/11/2021 7:23:00 PM (view original):
If I can use a basketball analogy how many guards in the modern game would you take over Michael Jordan - maybe Lebron James and maybe Seth Curry - and no others even though Jordan rarely took a 3 pointer during the 3 point era and most Star scoring guards are quite adept at the 3.
Quaterbacking is multi dimensional position and a QB with indomitable leadership and deep respect from his team with great talent is the key.
Mahones definitely has it to be sure.

But he is the new king in making until Brady relinquishes the crown which is still atop his head.

LeBron is not a guard, but there are not too many players (of any position) I would consider take over Jordan in his prime. The two you mentioned, and KD is about it.

also, I know its early, but I'd consider Herbert along with Mhomes

Jordan was overrated and a creature of the NBA refereeing policies!

Posted by wylie715 on 10/12/2021 2:23:00 AM (view original):
also, I know its early, but I'd consider Herbert along with Mhomes

Come the **** on. Mahomes is outplaying him so far THIS year. Wake me up when Herbert wins ONE playoff game, or hell, even makes the playoffs.

tang, you are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine, but Herbert has been pretty impressive so far in his young career and just seems to be getting better. Don't get me wrong, Mahomes is great too. If I was an NFL GM I'd be happy to have either one of them.
i also think, being a Chiefs fan, you may be a little biased which is understandable.

Of course Herbert has been impressive - he's easily top 5. But he's not Mahomes. Herbert's QBR is still 10 points behind Mahomes. Give him a year or two, and maybe they are on level footing.

Herbert is also benefitted from being under a head coach who actually understands analytics and why you should go for it on 4th down.

you got a problem with Andy Reid?

He's a great coach, but anyone who doesn't play the analytics game is at a major disadvantage in today's NFL.

Posted by tangplay on 10/13/2021 2:57:00 PM (view original):
He's a great coach, but anyone who doesn't play the analytics game is at a major disadvantage in today's NFL.

Are they, though?

The Bill Belichick Patriots like to go for it on 4th down, but Bill Belichick is openly disdainful of analytics. He uses his gut, not math, to decide when to be aggressive. Likewise Andy Reid. Those are the most successful coaches active in the NFL right now. There are other teams with analytically-minded coaches and front offices. So far, few of them have won titles. Gary Kubiak won with the Broncos. I suppose you could argue that the Eagles are more interested in analytics than most franchises, so maybe that's one other example. The Ravens use a ton of analytics, have a very talented team, and haven't won. Likewise the Browns. And the Bill O'Brien Texans (not so talented now, but they were solid for a while while he was coaching). Bruce Arians notoriously hates modern analytics. He's the defending Super Bowl champion head coach.

I'm not convinced that reality bears out your statement at all. Analytics made a huge visible impact in baseball and basketball. So far, I haven't seen any comparable mark in the NFL.

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2021 8:40:00 AM (view original):
Jordan was overrated and a creature of the NBA refereeing policies!

Jordan couldn't beat Isiah Thomas and the Detroit Pistons until they changed the game. When they did, Jordan ostracized Thomas and became unstoppable, but it took them changing the entire game.

Brady blows Jordan to the weeds as far as the GOAT is concerned.

Posted by dahsdebater on 10/13/2021 6:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 10/13/2021 2:57:00 PM (view original):
He's a great coach, but anyone who doesn't play the analytics game is at a major disadvantage in today's NFL.

Are they, though?

The Bill Belichick Patriots like to go for it on 4th down, but Bill Belichick is openly disdainful of analytics. He uses his gut, not math, to decide when to be aggressive. Likewise Andy Reid. Those are the most successful coaches active in the NFL right now. There are other teams with analytically-minded coaches and front offices. So far, few of them have won titles. Gary Kubiak won with the Broncos. I suppose you could argue that the Eagles are more interested in analytics than most franchises, so maybe that's one other example. The Ravens use a ton of analytics, have a very talented team, and haven't won. Likewise the Browns. And the Bill O'Brien Texans (not so talented now, but they were solid for a while while he was coaching). Bruce Arians notoriously hates modern analytics. He's the defending Super Bowl champion head coach.

I'm not convinced that reality bears out your statement at all. Analytics made a huge visible impact in baseball and basketball. So far, I haven't seen any comparable mark in the NFL.

You're correct that analytics are less prevalent in football right now. But that's slowly changing, and coaches that embrace it now (like Staley, Harbaugh, and Stefanski) are at an advantage. Of course it's not the only thing that matters - Belichick and Reid are great coaches anyway, they would just be better if they went for more 4th downs and 2 point conversions.

But Billy Beane never won a ring in Oakland, and he was employing sabermetrics to gain a way bigger edge than NFL teams who are more analytically inclined.

Throw the ball more, running backs don't matter, go for more 4th downs and 2 point conversions, etc. Coaches and organizations who employ these mindsets and strategies will have an edge until the league catches up.

Outside of boxers and golfers there have been very very few athletes who played great in their 40s.
Ted Williams retired at 42 and was still great.
There is Brady and Montana.
I think Jimmy Connors and Rod Laver.
Definitely Gordie Howe.
Warren Spahn from 40 through 42.

I don’t count George the Animal Steele.