Posted by cccp1014 on 2/2/2022 9:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/1/2022 9:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/1/2022 3:21:00 PM (view original):
tangplay, you have utterly embarrassed yourself with this thread. Congratulations.

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/32991242/nfl-betting-awards-watch-rodgers-closing-back-back-mvps

Brady retiring as the 2nd best player in the league...based on MVP odds.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tom-brady-retires-a-rundown-of-nfl-records-the-former-patriots-bucs-qb-owns-after-legendary-career/

These are all the records, the "lucky guy" has.....

• Most consecutive seasons in the NFL playoffs by a team, player or head coach: 13

As Mahomes just found out....its not easy to win in the NFL. Rodgers already knew that. As did Manning and Brees.


You start a draft now...pick any player from any generation and the first pick for anyone sane is Tom Brady. LOL

You need to stop eating those retard sandwiches

Can you point me to a single point in this thread where I argued that Brady isn't the GOAT?

He's obviously the most accomplished QB ever. Definitely not the most talented but has achieved the most success.

He's also the most lucky QB ever. Both can be true. It's undeniable that Brady was gifted a really advantageous situation in his early years and has won numerous rings based upon lucky coincidences. Dee Ford, Robert Alford drop pick, Seahawks throwing on the 1, tuck rule, as just some examples.

Luck goes both ways. Tyree catch, Manningham catch, chicanery from Philly equaled his three losses. Against the Giants he had a gimpy Gronk, who was useless on a badly sprained ankle. Against Philly he didn't have Edelman and Cooks was taken out of the game early and still put up monster stats. He deserved those he won and those he lost. That is football. But he got to 10!. That is amazing by any era standards. He then went to the most losing franchise in sports history and won the SB with them. Tampa owes Brady that SB, 100%.

Lucky...LOL...yeah OK.

In the games against the Giants he scored 14 and 17, so he didn't deserve to win.

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it, but the sheer amount of games that were OVER if not for one fluky play is higher for Brady than anyone else. Like I said, changing 4 plays that were totally out of Brady's hands (and in some cases Brady mistakes) single-handedly removes 4 rings. You can't do that with other QB's.

Even the Bucs SB was littered with lucky moments. Barely beat Taylor Heinecke, then beats the Saints because of a fumble, gets bailed out by a late PI call despite throwing 3 second half INT's vs the Packers, and then gets to face a Chiefs team missing 4/5 of the offensive line.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/2/2022 10:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/1/2022 9:25:00 PM (view original):
At the same time, it's super obvious that Brady couldn't carry subpar talent post ~2018, and isn't on the level of guys like Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, etc. at the moment. Per your same idea of having a draft for a single season, Brady probably isn't getting picked first. And that's ok! He's 44!

I mean as they enter the NFL at 22....what player do you start a franchise with. Its TB12 100%.

GOAT
Best QB Ever
Undeniable except for haters like you, who worship Pat Mahomes, who could not even beat Joe Burrow at home. PPPPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEASEEEEEEEEEEE.

Can you read? I just said that Brady is the GOAT

But don't diss Mahomes. He's on pace to surpass Brady's records and is in the midst of arguably the greatest 4-year stretch of QB play EVER, and it's his first 4 years.

I'll repeat it one more time since CCCP clearly has reading comprehension issues: obviously Brady is the GOAT. He's won more than anyone else and has pretty much every record. Maybe Mahomes will get there in 15 years but it's too early to say

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/2/2022 1:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 2/2/2022 12:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/2/2022 9:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 2/1/2022 8:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 2/1/2022 4:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/1/2022 3:21:00 PM (view original):
tangplay, you have utterly embarrassed yourself with this thread. Congratulations.

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/32991242/nfl-betting-awards-watch-rodgers-closing-back-back-mvps

Brady retiring as the 2nd best player in the league...based on MVP odds.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tom-brady-retires-a-rundown-of-nfl-records-the-former-patriots-bucs-qb-owns-after-legendary-career/

These are all the records, the "lucky guy" has.....

• Most consecutive seasons in the NFL playoffs by a team, player or head coach: 13

As Mahomes just found out....its not easy to win in the NFL. Rodgers already knew that. As did Manning and Brees.


You start a draft now...pick any player from any generation and the first pick for anyone sane is Tom Brady. LOL

You need to stop eating those retard sandwiches

Of course Tom Brady is the greatest NFL QB in NFL history to date
It is ridiculous to argue against that.
Not worthy of a discussion.
Arguing James vs Jordan or Shaq vs Jabbar vs Wilt vs Russell yes but no one comes close to Brady especially in an age of more then 30 teams in the league

Much as I hate to say it, Brady is the best QB ever, but Montana comes close. Yes, Brady has more rings and went to more Super bowls than Joe, but Montana never lost a Super Bowl. Also, Brady played much longer. Today's NFL is much different from the NFL of Joe Montana. Who knows what Montana's final stats would have been if injuries hadn't forced him to retire. While I do think Brady is the GOAT it is hard to compare players from different eras.

False argument. Montana only played in four because he didn't succeed and get to more. Brady got to 10. Tough to compare, I agree but calling Brady's success "luck" is crazy.

I don't agree...if Montana had been able to play 22 seasons as Brady did, he probably would have made it to a few more super bowls. No way we will ever know though.
Also, where did I say luck had anything to do with Brady's success? I didn't. I also agree that Brady is the best QB ever. I just said I felt Montana was not that far off.

Montana was 16-7 in playoff games Brady is 35 - 12....

What do you mean? And tangplay said he was the luckiest

Yes, tangplay said he was the luckiest. I didn't. I don't think Brady was more or less lucky than anyone else. You need to remember no QB wins games on his own.
If you're gonna compare records - Montana in Super Bowls 4 - 0, Terry Bradshaw 4 - 0, Tom Brady 7 - 3

Posted by tangplay on 2/2/2022 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/2/2022 9:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/1/2022 9:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/1/2022 3:21:00 PM (view original):
tangplay, you have utterly embarrassed yourself with this thread. Congratulations.

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/32991242/nfl-betting-awards-watch-rodgers-closing-back-back-mvps

Brady retiring as the 2nd best player in the league...based on MVP odds.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tom-brady-retires-a-rundown-of-nfl-records-the-former-patriots-bucs-qb-owns-after-legendary-career/

These are all the records, the "lucky guy" has.....

• Most consecutive seasons in the NFL playoffs by a team, player or head coach: 13

As Mahomes just found out....its not easy to win in the NFL. Rodgers already knew that. As did Manning and Brees.


You start a draft now...pick any player from any generation and the first pick for anyone sane is Tom Brady. LOL

You need to stop eating those retard sandwiches

Can you point me to a single point in this thread where I argued that Brady isn't the GOAT?

He's obviously the most accomplished QB ever. Definitely not the most talented but has achieved the most success.

He's also the most lucky QB ever. Both can be true. It's undeniable that Brady was gifted a really advantageous situation in his early years and has won numerous rings based upon lucky coincidences. Dee Ford, Robert Alford drop pick, Seahawks throwing on the 1, tuck rule, as just some examples.

Luck goes both ways. Tyree catch, Manningham catch, chicanery from Philly equaled his three losses. Against the Giants he had a gimpy Gronk, who was useless on a badly sprained ankle. Against Philly he didn't have Edelman and Cooks was taken out of the game early and still put up monster stats. He deserved those he won and those he lost. That is football. But he got to 10!. That is amazing by any era standards. He then went to the most losing franchise in sports history and won the SB with them. Tampa owes Brady that SB, 100%.

Lucky...LOL...yeah OK.

In the games against the Giants he scored 14 and 17, so he didn't deserve to win.

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it, but the sheer amount of games that were OVER if not for one fluky play is higher for Brady than anyone else. Like I said, changing 4 plays that were totally out of Brady's hands (and in some cases Brady mistakes) single-handedly removes 4 rings. You can't do that with other QB's.

Even the Bucs SB was littered with lucky moments. Barely beat Taylor Heinecke, then beats the Saints because of a fumble, gets bailed out by a late PI call despite throwing 3 second half INT's vs the Packers, and then gets to face a Chiefs team missing 4/5 of the offensive line.

This is tiresome. He threw for over 500 yards vs. Philly and lost. Stats aren't everything. He thrashed the Chiefs D...did he not. He also beat them to get to the Super Bowl to face the Rams in Arrowhead. So you consider most of his 22-year career to be luck? LOL

Posted by wylie715 on 2/2/2022 3:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/2/2022 1:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 2/2/2022 12:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/2/2022 9:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 2/1/2022 8:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 2/1/2022 4:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/1/2022 3:21:00 PM (view original):
tangplay, you have utterly embarrassed yourself with this thread. Congratulations.

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/32991242/nfl-betting-awards-watch-rodgers-closing-back-back-mvps

Brady retiring as the 2nd best player in the league...based on MVP odds.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tom-brady-retires-a-rundown-of-nfl-records-the-former-patriots-bucs-qb-owns-after-legendary-career/

These are all the records, the "lucky guy" has.....

• Most consecutive seasons in the NFL playoffs by a team, player or head coach: 13

As Mahomes just found out....its not easy to win in the NFL. Rodgers already knew that. As did Manning and Brees.


You start a draft now...pick any player from any generation and the first pick for anyone sane is Tom Brady. LOL

You need to stop eating those retard sandwiches

Of course Tom Brady is the greatest NFL QB in NFL history to date
It is ridiculous to argue against that.
Not worthy of a discussion.
Arguing James vs Jordan or Shaq vs Jabbar vs Wilt vs Russell yes but no one comes close to Brady especially in an age of more then 30 teams in the league

Much as I hate to say it, Brady is the best QB ever, but Montana comes close. Yes, Brady has more rings and went to more Super bowls than Joe, but Montana never lost a Super Bowl. Also, Brady played much longer. Today's NFL is much different from the NFL of Joe Montana. Who knows what Montana's final stats would have been if injuries hadn't forced him to retire. While I do think Brady is the GOAT it is hard to compare players from different eras.

False argument. Montana only played in four because he didn't succeed and get to more. Brady got to 10. Tough to compare, I agree but calling Brady's success "luck" is crazy.

I don't agree...if Montana had been able to play 22 seasons as Brady did, he probably would have made it to a few more super bowls. No way we will ever know though.
Also, where did I say luck had anything to do with Brady's success? I didn't. I also agree that Brady is the best QB ever. I just said I felt Montana was not that far off.

Montana was 16-7 in playoff games Brady is 35 - 12....

What do you mean? And tangplay said he was the luckiest

Yes, tangplay said he was the luckiest. I didn't. I don't think Brady was more or less lucky than anyone else. You need to remember no QB wins games on his own.
If you're gonna compare records - Montana in Super Bowls 4 - 0, Terry Bradshaw 4 - 0, Tom Brady 7 - 3

That means he got to more of them while Montana and Bradshaw could not get there. Right?

So you consider most of his 22-year career to be luck? LOL

I never said that

My only argument is that Brady is the luckiest QB in NFL history. He definitely deserves a ton of success, but a couple of rings required a lot of fortune. For example, if Dee Ford lines up 6 inches further back, Brady has one less ring; that had nothing to do with Brady. If the Seahawks run on the 1 yard line, Brady has 1 less ring. If Robert Alford doesn't drop a simple INT (or the Falcons don't totally choke/throw the ball up 8 in FG range), Brady has one less ring. If the refs don't make the tuck rule call, he has one less ring.

I'm not saying that most of his career is luck. I'm saying that Brady has had more of these crazy lucky moments than anyone else.

Dunno know about that. As he played longer than the others more "unusual" calls are to be expected.

Bradshaw loses one of his rings too, IF NOT for the "immaculate reception".
Football is a team game. Brady doesn't win ANY without being a PART of a team.
Based on his relationships with his teammates, I'd speculate that Brady was also superior as a teammate and in providing inspiring LEADERSHIP.
In fact, IMO, that last quality (leadership) might be the MOST important asset for a QB to have.
All the great ones have it, some others not so much.

Some players will run thru a wall with the right inspiration or for the right teammate.
Brady seemed to inspire that kind of effort/dedication within his mates.
So did Montana and others.
Many QB's do not and some are viewed as primadonnas by their teammates.
I won't name names here.

Posted by laramiebob on 2/3/2022 8:15:00 AM (view original):
Dunno know about that. As he played longer than the others more "unusual" calls are to be expected.

Bradshaw loses one of his rings too, IF NOT for the "immaculate reception".
Football is a team game. Brady doesn't win ANY without being a PART of a team.
Based on his relationships with his teammates, I'd speculate that Brady was also superior as a teammate and in providing inspiring LEADERSHIP.
In fact, IMO, that last quality (leadership) might be the MOST important asset for a QB to have.
All the great ones have it, some others not so much.

Some players will run thru a wall with the right inspiration or for the right teammate.
Brady seemed to inspire that kind of effort/dedication within his mates.
So did Montana and others.
Many QB's do not and some are viewed as primadonnas by their teammates.
I won't name names here.

Well said.

I agree that Brady is probably the best QB leader ever.

But regarding luck, if you want to compare Brady's first 15 years to any other QB, I dare you to find a QB who had more sheer fortune than Brady.

So....... ask former Michigan Coach Lloyd Carr about Brady and "luck" (I don't think you can, he may have passed......) He would/will tell you the story of when Brady came into his office and announced he was leaving/transferring......... and what happened the next time Brady came into his office.

Or you could just google it............

Luck is not coincidence because there are no coincidences.
Luck is the residue of design. It is also said that luck is when perspiration meets opportunity.

It is absurd to call Tom Brady lucky.
You can find a way to say that about every very successful athlete if you try.

OK, give examples of other QB's being as lucky as Brady. I gave 4 examples where the game is OVER if not for a wacky 1 in a million coincidence that was out of Brady's control. Can you do that with anyone else?

Posted by tangplay on 2/3/2022 2:30:00 PM (view original):
OK, give examples of other QB's being as lucky as Brady. I gave 4 examples where the game is OVER if not for a wacky 1 in a million coincidence that was out of Brady's control. Can you do that with anyone else?

You could if you tried.
Personally i would not even try.

On Mahomes i never gave my opinion.
I would call him the best QB now and this season
and Brady is way up there at 2 or 3.
I cannot think of any athlete from the big 4 and boxing and tennis who could perform at an elite championship level other than George Foreman.

Mahomes could very well become the greatest QB and it would be no surprise.
No doubt but that can start to be discussed around his 10th season unless he becomes the Bill Russell of football.