Sac State Megathread: D1 success w/o D1 players? Topic

I would consider myself to be most comfortable as a Low D1 coach; it's where I'm strongest and my record certainly aligns with my feeling. But most of my teams that are successful because of my recruiting at D- to C+ prestige. A much bigger challenge is to use team-building and game planning skills to win with little to no talent at all. The best way to test this is to ban myself from recruiting any projected D1 players.

The Team
I took Sacramento State in Tark this morning to put this to work. The Tark Big Sky is a good conference, I have absolutely no interest in beating up on sims. I want the real competition!

What am I defining as a "D1 Player?"
I cannot recruit any 4 year or JUCO players that are projected as D1 caliber. I can, however, use any players the sim recruits for me (walk-ons or autosigned players) as well as sign transfers from schools, even if they are "projected" to be D1. As far as I'm concerned, either it is good enough for me to make them not a true D1 player if they get cut from a school (either being bad enough to not be listed as Projected D1 as a transfer or not being keepable at a D1 school). I don't expect signing transfers to be a major part of my strategy though.

How can I possibly achieve any success with such inferior talent?
Some projected D2 players are actually really good... just not enough of them. I could go at this two different ways. First, I could run zone or man, take 2/3 walk-ons every year, and run a brutal slowdown. I could depend on just the very cream of the crop of D2 players, especially since I should be able to grab 1 usable JUCO per year. But instead I will opt to run mo/press, which is the pair of sets I'm second most comfortable with after mo/man. Press allows you to perform well even with less talent, and I've historically had a lot of success with mo/press.

What is my plan to make the most talented roster possible?
My main worry about doing this is how much of a ***** I will be to the D2 teams in the area. I've been driven out of multiple locations because of the stupid D1s that steal my favorite projected D2 JUCOs, so I'm really sorry to D2 schools in Cali Tark. It's ironic that TrentonJoe is one of the guys who will get hurt from this, given he is the coach who originally had the idea and tried it at San Jose State in Knight. I will be honest, I do think people could overstate how harmful this will be for the coaches in this conference. Every Projected D2 player I sign is one less low Projected d1 player I'll take from them, and if you think about it, it isn't matter which pool I'm leeching their talent from, I'm pretty much grabbing 12 guys every 4 years that they would otherwise land. I'm worried some of them will try to battle me while I'm lower prestige, but in the end I'll have too many resources and too high prestige for them to keep up. But even if I lose a single guy to a D2 fighting me, that'd totally suck. At least I'll have 6 openings for the first few seasons as I gain prestige.

I'll sign the best D2 talent available, but I'll especially focus on ath/spd/de/pa at the 1, spd/per at the 2, spd/per at the 3, ath/reb/de at the 4, and ath/reb/de at the 5. That type of press team if you get what I mean, where you have a few guys who carry the offense with lesser ath/de. I also intend to use the JUCO RS strategy a LOT. I will have nearly unlimited resources to pour into recruiting, so I will be able to use 20 HVs with the guarantee redshirt is a lot of cases, to be completely same.


Year 0

First Sacramento State Class (RS2):

Dennis Jones (JUCO2-ID)

Ratings: 47 ath 87 spd 46 de 25 lp 86 per 88 bh 82 pa 83 sta (Flex/Zone)
My Take: Definitely not a real D1 player, but he's only a JUCO and will get out of my program quickly.

Phillip Banks (JUCO2-KA)
Ratings: 67+ ath 68 spd 80+ de 15 lp 78 per 84+ bh 60 pa 85 sta (Flex/Man)
My Take: Another guy that isn't a real D1 signing, but he will be out of my program in 2 years and helps me balance classes. Well out of my home area.

Gregory McBroom (HS-Sim Recruited)
Ratings: 80 ath 34 spd 74+ reb 88 de 57 sb 65 lp 24 per 45 bh 47+ pa 87 sta
My Take: Very very good for a sim recruited player. Maybe even good enough to keep. He will probably be rescinded though.

Jeremy Boyce (HS-TX)
Ratings: 89 ath 25 spd 86+ reb 84+ de 47 sb 29 lp 24 per 21 bh 40 pa 86 sta
My Take: Boyce is very much a real D1 player. It is shocking I could land a player of this caliber in RS2, and not a single D2 or D3 school even bother to put a single AP on him for the first session. Absolute beast, and a tremendous way to start this challenge. His stamina is what makes him so good in Flex/Press.

Timothy Schultz (HS-WA)
Ratings: 72+ ath 23 spd 81+ reb 71 de 67 sb 88+ lp 25 per 13 bh 27 pa 65 sta
My Take: Schultz is almost a D1 quality player. If he gets good ATH growth (currently 44 green) he will not be half bad. Of course, he should have been signed by a D2 (or D3 school) but the Pacific NW always has a few guys who slip through. The stamina blows though.

Mark Whitaker (HS-CA)
Ratings: 68 ath 74+ spd 60 reb 40+ lp 81 per 70 bh 75+ pa 99 sta
My Take: Whitaker is not remotely a D1 player in any defensive set other than press. But of course that juicy stamina makes him a fringe guy for me, which is good enough considering how slim the picking are in RS2. Only 23 WE means the STA won't max (will get stuck around 93-95) but the cap is so high he is still completely unrescindable. Shocking that a D2 or D3 press coach didn't think he was worth recruiting.

Shawn Ward (JUCO2-KS)
Ratings: 68 ath 92+ spd 77 de 7 lp 49 per 96+ bh 80 pa 92+ sta (Mo/Man)
My Take: 100% a low D1 player, he has 81 WE are well. Can't believe I was able to snipe this guy from a D2 with only 20 HV 1 CV 70 AP. Set me back 12k though, and I did lose a 36-64 for a studly Proj D2 guy to Emy at CSU, Chino. But Ward will be a huge piece for me, and will help get that prestige up.


Year 1
Preseason Predictions
Record: 3-24 (2-14 Big Sky (6th))
RPI: 290
Postseason: None
Awards: Dennis Jones HM All-Conference

Season Results
Record: 0-27 (0-16 Big Sky (6th))
RPI: 313
Postseason: None
Awards: None

Player Development
Schultz and Whitaker both, unfortunately, got really bad development.

Whitaker got minimum per (21) and minimum speed (28). His new caps are 72 ath 74 spd 10 reb 61 def 78 per 73 bh 83+ pa 100 sta. The ath/spd/de is really bad, and I was really relying on development more like ~80 spd/~82per. I might have ended up rescinding anyways, but now the decision is pretty much made for me, especially given the low WE.

Schultz got flat 28 green ath growth. Combined with only 60 red sta, he's definitely gone. I will end up having 7 openings for next year (and resources for 5).

Recruiting

Kevin Schneider (HS-TX)

Ratings: 70+ ath 63 spd 75 reb 11 lp 100 per 73+ bh 68+ pa 83 sta 59 WE
My Take: It pains me to have to sign a scoring guard with 63 SPD in a press, so he will probably never start. But there is really no substitute for guys with 100 PER, so he was drop buckets off the bench. Not a D1 quality player, but I guy I needed to sign. Got him for free as well.

Austin Crabtree (JUCO2-CA)
Ratings: 60 ath 79 spd 82+ de 20 lp 91+ per 80 bh 90+ pa 96+ sta 40 WE (Flex/Zone)
My Take: 100% a low D1 player, I wish he had a bit higher WE or knew my Offense or Defense. But should be a bit of a godly offensive player in his senior year. Will hopefully be able to take us to the PI or something in his second year, although maybe that's a bit too hopeful from me. He was free as well, allowing me to really load up on late signers, resources wise.

Joseph Cummings (JUCO2-CA)
Ratings: 88 ath 86 spd 91+ de 46 lp 65 per 86 bh 76 pa 98 sta 47 WE (FB/Man)
My Take: Absolute beast! I would probably sign this guy up to C+ or something prestige at D1. This is the type of D2 JUCO I need to be generated in order to start to enjoy some success. What a beast, and comes in with solid enough starting ratings and WE. Will be really productive for me. I'd be very excited to get someone like this every *other* year maybe. 98 sta! It's a shame a D2 battled me and I was not able to promise a redshirt, I would have loved to push him back a year. Very very annoying, but I will live. He could lead us to some moderate success in his senior year.

Peter Crabtree (HS-ND)
Ratings: 80+ ath 9 spd 90 reb 76 de 98 sb 88 lp 6 per 1 bh 25 pa 81 sta 31 WE (Flex/Man)
My Take: Very poor guard skills, but is still the best 4 year player I've signed yet, especially with good ATH growth. Lowish WE is annoying so I'll have to start him a bit. Certainly signable at D-, I've seen NT teams run out much much worse than him. Writing him down as my starting C of the future in permanent marker.

Ernest Blay (HS-NV)
Ratings: 76 ath 27 spd 72 reb 94 de 75 sb 89 lp 1 per 18 bh 36 pa 86 sta 66 WE
My Take: Not a D1 quality big. Really not a fan of him at all, except that 86 sta (starts at 81 yellow) and 66 WE looked really juicy. He's the type of inferior player I am hoping I will be able to integrate into my system with some success. Guessing he'll be a backup 4/5.

Year 2
Preseason Predictions
Record: 9-18 (4-12 Big Sky (5th))
RPI: 163
Postseason: None
Awards: Dennis Jones HM All-Conference

Season Results
Record: 13-14 (6-10 Big Sky (5th))
RPI: 172
Postseason: None
Awards: Shawn Ward 3rd Team All-Conference

Player Development
Not much to say here. Schneider is going to be a legitimate bench shooter, but a super weak defender. And the spd/reb is not ideal at all either. Blay got nice development, he should be a real low D1 big man. Less happy with Peter Crabtree's development, he got pretty poor ATH growth. The JUCOs got great growth.

Recruiting

Joel Connolly (JUCO-TX)

Ratings: 66 ath 78 spd 46 reb 24 lp 91 per 80 bh 86 pa 88 sta 37 WE (Mo/Man)
My Take: It pains me to have to sign a JUCO guy like this, although he is a reasonably high starting rating and low potential guy. He sucks and is not a low D1 player. Sadly, two D1s (A- Oklahoma and B+ Oklahoma State) ended up being super desperate and signed my top two Projected D2 JUCO targets. Luckily they were not that much better than Connolly, who at least will provide some really nice shooting. They definitely weren't anything special (and not remotely high prestige D1 players), so losing them was tough, but I'm hoping this will happen less after I get my prestige up. I even had to offer him minutes after a D2 pressured me.

Robert Matthews (HS-CA)
Ratings: 84 ath 26 spd 99 reb 93 de 79 sb 55+ lp 6 per 16 bh 6 pa 90 sta 21 WE
My Take: 100% a low D1 player, I wish he had a bit higher WE. The LP will never develop enough to make him a real scorer, but he will be an elite defender. A D2 pressured me on him so I had to offer a start, but honestly not too worried about it given he needs to start with the low WE anyways.

Michael Nguyen (HS-CA)
Ratings: 74 ath 88+ spd 77 de 73+ per 61 bh 81+ pa 93+ sta 37 WE
My Take: What a G if he gets some nice PER growth! Should be a passable two-way shooting guard for a low prestige. Nearly **** myself when an A- D1 put a lot of effort on him and jumped to very high (obviously not even close to recruitable for A- prestige given the low WE and unclear shooting potential) but luckily he never offered a ship. I will have to start 4 years to get WE up, so not particularly worried I had to offer a start.

Merlin Hogan (HS-CA)
Ratings: 77 ath 79+ spd 79 de 42+ lp 60 per 75+ bh 74 pa 94 sta 42 WE
My Take: Not a D1 player. Hoping for some nice speed and LP dev though to get him close. I'll probably run him out at the 1 as a mediocre well rounded guy. Getting to 90 speed would be huge though. Multiple D3s really pressed me on him (I think they even spent $$$) and I ended up having to promise a start and minutes to get to Very High. Pretty bent out of shape about that...I can't wait until I get to C+ prestige so the lower division schools can stop bothering me. D- is a total grind. I'm having to deal with much more resistance than I thought I would get from D2s/D3s.

Overall, a tough cycle for us from the JUCO standpoint. Hoping that higher prestige schools will stop reaching down for them, otherwise I will have to grind my prestige up for 5-6 seasons until I get to C+/B- and can fight them myself.
Year 3
Preseason Predictions
Record: 13-15 (7-9 Big Sky (4th))
RPI: 149
Postseason: None
Awards: Joel Connolly HM All-Conference, Joseph Cummings 3rd Team All-Conference
3/26/2022 8:30 PM (edited)
Update:

First scouting run through for RS2 recruiting session, and I already feel less bad. There's a lot of D2 level talent out here... the question is whether I can convert that D2 talent into ANY D1 success. But it will be much easier next year when I get all of RS1 with 23k and 140 AP to try to get that top tier D2 talent that has already been signed.
1/17/2022 6:40 PM
Very interested to see what you can do, will definitely be following along
1/18/2022 10:12 AM
Ohhhh! Now this is an exciting experiment. Can't wait to see how this turns out.



Edit: Once I get a little better at this game I'm tempted to see if I can do this in a D3 school with only D3 recruits.
1/18/2022 11:16 AM
Posted by hockey1984 on 1/18/2022 11:16:00 AM (view original):
Ohhhh! Now this is an exciting experiment. Can't wait to see how this turns out.



Edit: Once I get a little better at this game I'm tempted to see if I can do this in a D3 school with only D3 recruits.
This would be another great idea, I'd be very interested to see how far you could get.
1/18/2022 12:55 PM
Posted by cubcub113 on 1/18/2022 12:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by hockey1984 on 1/18/2022 11:16:00 AM (view original):
Ohhhh! Now this is an exciting experiment. Can't wait to see how this turns out.



Edit: Once I get a little better at this game I'm tempted to see if I can do this in a D3 school with only D3 recruits.
This would be another great idea, I'd be very interested to see how far you could get.
I think this would be a little more difficult due to the much smaller budget but I think it is achievable if you strategize and act wisely. I have recruited a couple of really solid d3 juco players in the past. I have never really looked at any 4-year players, however.
1/18/2022 1:34 PM
I got high last night and picked up Jackson state. I'm gonna copy Cub and give this d2 players thing a shot too.
1/19/2022 10:11 AM
As one of those D2 Cali schools in Tark, I'm glad I got the heads up warning. I'm sure I'll be able to adjust my recruiting strategy, but there were a number of D2 guys I signed in this class that would have had offers from you had you been here earlier. Plus you're on the best 4 year D2 Cali recruit I have seen. Good luck!
1/20/2022 8:33 AM (edited)
Are D2 coaches actually signing D2 players? Since I started playing again a few months ago(team in every world ugh). I have not singed one player as a D2/3 coach that was projected to play in that division I would think this would acually help the D2 teams near D1 teams doing this
1/20/2022 10:24 AM
Posted by hockey1984 on 1/18/2022 11:16:00 AM (view original):
Ohhhh! Now this is an exciting experiment. Can't wait to see how this turns out.



Edit: Once I get a little better at this game I'm tempted to see if I can do this in a D3 school with only D3 recruits.
This is what I've been doing in Iba. I was building a solid program at Eureka but left because of human coaches leaving and 0 socialization. Now I'm at EMU in the ODAC, a conference you bump up against frequently.

It's the second year of a complete rebuild. Eager to see how well I can do in the best DIII conference in Iba.
1/20/2022 11:51 AM
Posted by Fregoe on 1/20/2022 10:24:00 AM (view original):
Are D2 coaches actually signing D2 players? Since I started playing again a few months ago(team in every world ugh). I have not singed one player as a D2/3 coach that was projected to play in that division I would think this would acually help the D2 teams near D1 teams doing this
Some D2 coaches scout and sign a lot of D2 players. It's definitely not the best way to try to win a championship, but if you're looking to make consistent S16s then it definitely isn't the worst strategy ever. Overall, I agree it's maybe even a net positive for D2 coaches that they have more 4-year D1 options that I am not on.

The bad part for them is I'm going to be signing all of the good CA D2 JUCOs. D2 JUCOs can be so good that some very low D1 coaches will scout them not even as part of a challenge! Of course, there are only 1 or 2 good ones per year in a region (so it's definitely something where if you're fighting over the guys, it's not useful anymore) but they can be really good. I got driven out of Bloomfield in Allen a few years ago by a Boston College coach who signed 3 stud Proj D2 JUCO guys; was super annoying because they couldn't quite compete in the ACC, but they would have been incredible D2 players and even really solid Colonial or Ivy players as well.

Summary:
I wouldn't exactly say that every D2 coach needs to start scouting D2 players every year, but it's probably worth checking out what it looks like one year with each different D2 team you have just to see how competitive the scene is. Some locations I've decided there is too much competition and it isn't worth it, other locations I'm the only one from my conference scouting in the D2 pool and it is pretty easy to land a few solid guys.
1/20/2022 1:11 PM (edited)
First Sacramento State Class (RS2):

Dennis Jones (JUCO2-ID)

Ratings: 47 ath 87 spd 46 de 25 lp 86 per 88 bh 82 pa 83 sta (Flex/Zone)
My Take: Definitely not a real D1 player, but he's only a JUCO and will get out of my program quickly.

Phillip Banks (JUCO2-KA)
Ratings: 67+ ath 68 spd 80+ de 15 lp 78 per 84+ bh 60 pa 85 sta (Flex/Man)
My Take: Another guy that isn't a real D1 signing, but he will be out of my program in 2 years and helps me balance classes. Well out of my home area.

Gregory McBroom (HS-Sim Recruited)
Ratings: 80 ath 34 spd 74+ reb 88 de 57 sb 65 lp 24 per 45 bh 47+ pa 87 sta
My Take: Very very good for a sim recruited player. Maybe even good enough to keep. He will probably be rescinded though.

Jeremy Boyce (HS-TX)
Ratings: 89 ath 25 spd 86+ reb 84+ de 47 sb 29 lp 24 per 21 bh 40 pa 86 sta
My Take: Boyce is very much a real D1 player. It is shocking I could land a player of this caliber in RS2, and not a single D2 or D3 school even bother to put a single AP on him for the first session. Absolute beast, and a tremendous way to start this challenge. His stamina is what makes him so good in Flex/Press.

Timothy Schultz (HS-WA)
Ratings: 72+ ath 23 spd 81+ reb 71 de 67 sb 88+ lp 25 per 13 bh 27 pa 65 sta
My Take: Schultz is almost a D1 quality player. If he gets good ATH growth (currently 44 green) he will not be half bad. Of course, he should have been signed by a D2 (or D3 school) but the Pacific NW always has a few guys who slip through. The stamina blows though.

Mark Whitaker (HS-CA)
Ratings: 68 ath 74+ spd 60 reb 40+ lp 81 per 70 bh 75+ pa 99 sta
My Take: Whitaker is not remotely a D1 player in any defensive set other than press. But of course that juicy stamina makes him a fringe guy for me, which is good enough considering how slim the picking are in RS2. Only 23 WE means the STA won't max (will get stuck around 93-95) but the cap is so high he is still completely unrescindable. Shocking that a D2 or D3 press coach didn't think he was worth recruiting.

Shawn Ward (JUCO2-KS)
Ratings: 68 ath 92+ spd 77 de 7 lp 49 per 96+ bh 80 pa 92+ sta (Mo/Man)
My Take: 100% a low D1 player, he has 81 WE are well. Can't believe I was able to snipe this guy from a D2 with only 20 HV 1 CV 70 AP. Set me back 12k though, and I did lose a 36-64 for a studly Proj D2 guy to Emy at CSU, Chino. But Ward will be a huge piece for me, and will help get that prestige up.
1/20/2022 5:31 PM (edited)
I am going to put everything as an edit to my first post for future updates. Finished up my first class with 8 guys today! Leaves 4 openings for next year + 1/2 rescinds in RS2.
1/20/2022 5:38 PM
I was wondering why 2 D1 coaches were on Jeremy Boyce. I just took over Tarleton st and found Boyce with no one on him and then see 2 D1s on him after the first cycle. I was like wth is going on.
1/21/2022 2:14 PM
I can already answer this. It won't work. Either at D1 or at D3.
1/21/2022 4:04 PM
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Sac State Megathread: D1 success w/o D1 players? Topic

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