Apologies if this is covered elsewhere, but what happens if you redshirt an incoming JUCO recruit?

Sometimes they will accept, sometimes they wont. I've had it go either way, but my guess is that they are more than likely not going to accept it without WE dropping

Ive never had a junior accept a RS outside of the instance when they were signed as a JR JUCO and the RS was signaled in recruiting. Sophomores (whether they are from JUCO or not) will often accept RS when there are 2 players better than them on the depth chart. The "on the depth chart" is in simmy's mind not yours which sometimes can be hard to anticipate, but you can generally get your 5th post or 5th guard to take one when they have the lowest overall of the 5. A JUCO soph that was told they will be getting a RS will always accept it in their first year.

JUCOs are one of the very few times that I use the RS button in recruiting. Normally the benefits just dont outweigh the costs, but JUCOs can really get a boost if you get a RS on them (esp if they dont run your O/D).

Posted by texashick on 1/18/2022 4:38:00 PM (view original):
Ive never had a junior accept a RS outside of the instance when they were signed as a JR JUCO and the RS was signaled in recruiting. Sophomores (whether they are from JUCO or not) will often accept RS when there are 2 players better than them on the depth chart. The "on the depth chart" is in simmy's mind not yours which sometimes can be hard to anticipate, but you can generally get your 5th post or 5th guard to take one when they have the lowest overall of the 5. A JUCO soph that was told they will be getting a RS will always accept it in their first year.

JUCOs are one of the very few times that I use the RS button in recruiting. Normally the benefits just dont outweigh the costs, but JUCOs can really get a boost if you get a RS on them (esp if they dont run your O/D).

All that is true, but with the caveat that sometimes informing them of the redshirt will cause them to completely ignore you for the rest of recruiting. If you do it, you want to make sure you have a scholarship offer on the table, and no one else is chasing the guy if it’s someone you don’t want to risk losing.

Also, view the redshirt button as a potential negative recruiting tool. As shoe stated, sometimes the recruit will completely bail on you when offering the redshirt. A good way to assure that doesn't happen, is to offer other positive recruiting actions along with that redshirt. As in "on the same cycle". I use 3-5 HV. But I'm sure you could get away with less, I just don't like to play with fire so I never push the limits.

I've had a junior who was on the big board accept the redshirt with no penalty in Wooden, He came in as a freshman and played his first two seasons. It's possible

JUCOs will accept the RS only if they don’t have a “wants to play” preference. You almost always need to inform them in recruiting.

Well, here's a data point:

I have redshirted JUCO's many times, always telling them beforehand in recruiting, i never tried it any other way. Never had any issue, it worked 100% of the time. Till now.

This season I offered a scholarship to a JUCO and informed him of the redshirt. Like Topdogg said could happen, this guy bailed on me. It still showed I had offered a scholarship, but all the tools were set to zero (home visits, etc) and I didn't even show up on the considering list, not even very low.

This guy is NOT a 'wants to play'.

Then I went and rescinded my intent to redshirt. He began to accept my attention again but it's like I'm starting from scratch. So my conclusion is that in a very small percentage of cases, informing a JUCO of a redshirt is like rescinding the scholarship offer.

Posted by deroches on 2/8/2022 10:45:00 PM (view original):
Well, here's a data point:

I have redshirted JUCO's many times, always telling them beforehand in recruiting, i never tried it any other way. Never had any issue, it worked 100% of the time. Till now.

This season I offered a scholarship to a JUCO and informed him of the redshirt. Like Topdogg said could happen, this guy bailed on me. It still showed I had offered a scholarship, but all the tools were set to zero (home visits, etc) and I didn't even show up on the considering list, not even very low.

This guy is NOT a 'wants to play'.

Then I went and rescinded my intent to redshirt. He began to accept my attention again but it's like I'm starting from scratch. So my conclusion is that in a very small percentage of cases, informing a JUCO of a redshirt is like rescinding the scholarship offer.

what you are seeing is more general and not exactly how you characterize it. i might not able to exactly characterize it, either! but i figured i'd expound a bit.

there has always been this concept in HD, which is the player's position relative to the school. i don't think the underlying concept changed in the last 15 years, but the way the concept manifests in actual HD has changed. for example, there used to be 3 major 'levels' that shook out - players on your level, players above your level, and players way above your level. in 1.0 and 2.0, you could not even talk to the latter camp, and the second camp you had to either take special action or wait for them to lower their standards. this has largely been removed from the game, but it was the most visible and widely experienced facet of the player's position relative to the school.

now, almost certainly, this concept exists on a continuum, and the 'levels' we experienced in 2.0 were just arbitrary thresholds.

this concept of the player's position relative to the school has always (well at least 15 years) been part of how players react to redshirts and scholarship pulls, during recruiting. i am virtually positive this continues until today. you can get a nasty response to a redshirt or scholarship pull from freshman without wants to play, too (at least, im pretty sure that's true). its just that jucos have higher ratings, so they are considered in general higher relative to your school, than freshman, so that is where you are seeing it. but for fun, if you got a 5* 1% unlocked, and redshirted him, you could most likely see the exact same behavior. anyway, what you experienced here, as i see it, was a juco 'way above your level' reacting accordingly. note that the correlation between the player's level relative to your school, and the actual quality of the recruit, is very thin (it seems it correlates more with overall rating than actual quality; well, more accurately, its those formulas that drive position ranking, like SG 1 through 200, that are used to determine the recruit's level, then your prestige is used to figure out the recruit's level relative to you).

it seem to me, this concept is also the primary driver of the amount of unlocking effort required (with preferences as a big factor, too)

oh yeah, to finish up - so what is happening is these 'way above you' recruits put a much higher negative value on pulling the scholarship or giving a redshirt, than normal players. and the pull of the redshirt value will not be the opposite of the give redshirt value, for the way above you players. the 'above you' recruits will have a higher negative value than the 'on your level' recruits, if you will, but it only gets really noticeable with the guys who are really looking down their noses at you.

so what happens is your effort just gets either substantially reduced, if you have a lot of it, or even goes negative, after something like this. its not like you are starting over as some special mechanic, its simply that the total effort score you have for each recruit has been driven down through those actions.

as dogg said, if you really wanted to redshirt that juco, you probably could have, it just might have taken a nice big fat stack of effort to counter the negative of the inform.

thanks Gillispie, great stuff. I'm always trying to understand this crazy game a little better.

agree fully with gill on the importance of the relationship between a player's level and your level

I think of it as - is the player thrilled you are interested? is your team around where he expects to end up? or is he a reach for you?

if the player is thrilled you are interested, everything - esp stuff like the inform of RS button - goes way better

if the player is a reach for you it aint likely to go as well