Posted by DoctorKz on 10/13/2022 4:06:00 PM (view original):
Would you consider adding other players that have pitched and played in the field in the same season? Ohtani isn't the only one to have done this...

Agreed. This is long overdue. Especially since the version of the player chosen for inclusion is occasionally a very poor choice.

As an example, I had Otto Hess in an early progressive. A solid 217 IP, 1.18 WHIP as a pitcher in 1905, yet only his hitter portion is available, with 186 PA of 99 OPS+ hitting.

Ruth's '18 season would be welcomed...

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/18/2022 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by DoctorKz on 10/13/2022 4:06:00 PM (view original):
Would you consider adding other players that have pitched and played in the field in the same season? Ohtani isn't the only one to have done this...

Agreed. This is long overdue. Especially since the version of the player chosen for inclusion is occasionally a very poor choice.

As an example, I had Otto Hess in an early progressive. A solid 217 IP, 1.18 WHIP as a pitcher in 1905, yet only his hitter portion is available, with 186 PA of 99 OPS+ hitting.

Yeah that makes no sense. He was clearly a fulltime pitcher that year and a part time hitter, yet they way they calculate it, you lose his pitching season.

Bob Caruthers 1886 offense (201OPS+) and 1888 (+/- 450IP, 2.43FIP, .99whip) pitching would be great additions to the sim.

Ditto - #3 - leave as is

We should start with Ohtani, see how it goes and be grateful. Apparently it's been a lot of work, so let's not overwhelm Ccobb12 with "what about these other guys, too"

Not sure if dynamic pricing is coming back. Many of us would like to see it.

Posted by theclash603 on 10/27/2022 1:42:00 PM (view original):
Option 1 seems to make the most sense.

Option 3 is popular, because it would lead to another exploitable player. Just look at Ketel Marte usage to see how popular broken players are.

As an aside, we need salary adjustment based on usage to make a return. It's an easy fix for when there is an exploit, and theoretically would make the whole Ohtani debacle moot regardless of what of the three options was picked.

How is Ketel Marte "broken"?

Pitcher Ohtani will be no more (actually, less) of an exploit than '15-'17 Babe Ruth, which is to say, not an exploit.

I feel like people are forgetting that while Ohtani's accomplishments are fun and historic, in isolation, neither his pitching nor hit hitting are earth-shattering.

Is Ketel a fan favorite who has been used more than any other player in recent years because he's beloved?

...or is he an exploitable juiced player that leads to easy victories?

Usage based salary adjustments would price Marte out of lineups. It would make the game fresh again, I get tired seeing the same team repeatedly.

Ohtani may be broken, he might not be. Rather than worrying if the sim gets him right, having a mechanic that automatically fixes broken players seems like a better solution. I like giving money to this site and the product is okay, but it could be great with salary adjustments leading to more varied lineups.

Posted by theclash603 on 10/29/2022 12:57:00 AM (view original):
Is Ketel a fan favorite who has been used more than any other player in recent years because he's beloved?

...or is he an exploitable juiced player that leads to easy victories?

Usage based salary adjustments would price Marte out of lineups. It would make the game fresh again, I get tired seeing the same team repeatedly.

Ohtani may be broken, he might not be. Rather than worrying if the sim gets him right, having a mechanic that automatically fixes broken players seems like a better solution. I like giving money to this site and the product is okay, but it could be great with salary adjustments leading to more varied lineups.

I agree in principle, but they did dynamic pricing badly last time around (compounded for too long) and it just priced some players out at ridiculous levels. The other thing that happened is we traded one set of cookies for the next-man-up, or should I say "next-cookie-up."

It's not that bad though. If you play at different salary levels, you'll see different guys. '19 Marte is common at leagues with caps under $100 mil. At $100 mil and up, he's less common.* Also, playing theme leagues helps break the cookie cycle.

* I admit this is annoying though, as I don't like playing leagues over $100 mil, personally.

Posted by jmcraven74 on 10/29/2022 3:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by theclash603 on 10/29/2022 12:57:00 AM (view original):
Is Ketel a fan favorite who has been used more than any other player in recent years because he's beloved?

...or is he an exploitable juiced player that leads to easy victories?

Usage based salary adjustments would price Marte out of lineups. It would make the game fresh again, I get tired seeing the same team repeatedly.

Ohtani may be broken, he might not be. Rather than worrying if the sim gets him right, having a mechanic that automatically fixes broken players seems like a better solution. I like giving money to this site and the product is okay, but it could be great with salary adjustments leading to more varied lineups.

I agree in principle, but they did dynamic pricing badly last time around (compounded for too long) and it just priced some players out at ridiculous levels. The other thing that happened is we traded one set of cookies for the next-man-up, or should I say "next-cookie-up."

It's not that bad though. If you play at different salary levels, you'll see different guys. '19 Marte is common at leagues with caps under $100 mil. At $100 mil and up, he's less common.* Also, playing theme leagues helps break the cookie cycle.

* I admit this is annoying though, as I don't like playing leagues over $100 mil, personally.

I think the biggest issue with the last dynamic pricing implementation is that it included usage across all leagues instead of just usage in OL/CL. This unequally distorted salaries of higher quality players who have value in high cap leagues as the increased salary didn't prevent continued use there or drive to less usage, just continued to perpetually increase their salaries.

Marte is priced very similarly to other players with his same toolset, though a few of them have since been priced out due to the last dynamic pricing change. I rarely use Marte from a toolset standpoint as he does provide value, but it comes at costs and isn't an autowin... In fact, I'm in an OL right now where there are only 3 instances of Marte across the entire league and only one of those teams is looking to make the playoffs (they're currently the WC and 1 GB of the division), the other two are each in 3rd place in their divisions, and one is several games under .500.

I'm a big fan of dynamic pricing, but only if applied to just usage in OL/CL. And the theme cycle certainly adds some variety (in fact, there's a $30m league looking for some owners with two free teams being given out). But mostly, yeah, I agree with jmcraven74 here...

Posted by chargingryno on 10/13/2022 5:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by just4me on 10/13/2022 3:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by 06gsp on 10/13/2022 3:02:00 PM (view original):
The pricing formula takes hitting ability into account for pitchers, good hitting pitchers are always more expensive than light hitting pitchers with the exact same pitching stats, so can't you just use his normal price?

In DH leagues this is already something smart owners avoid, not drafting a pitcher whose monster bat you won't be able to use.

So I would say to just price him like you would any other good hitting pitcher using the standard formula.

Echoing this: 3.) Leave as is

Ditto

After reading through the posts and giving this as much thoughtful consideration as I could muster, I agree that option 3 as presented would be the best choice.

The two leagues I play in are present progressive leagues. It's been disappointing that the owners with Shohei Ohtani haven't been able to utilize him as a pitcher.

Pricing doesn't matter for our leagues, so I'm just looking forward to both versions being included. I am guessing we will discuss using a house rule about not using Ohtani as a pinch hitter on days that he pitches. We're drafting in both leagues right now for 2022, so hoping he gets added before we kick off in a couple weeks

Leave as is makes sense to me. Just getting the pitcher version of the game will be a huge addition.

We are just wrapping up our 2018 draft (Ohtani's 1st year), and it's disappointing that this hasn't been resolved yet. Please go with two versions!

They're gonna say naaaaahhh, code is too old oh and yeah but we're (still) working on it and all the other happy joy bell and whistle upgrades. All I know is other platforms who've been around awhile have 2 Ohtani's and most of them can be drafted separately. It's been awhile since my programming days but even then it was really really simple : OhtaniH and OhtaniP