I respect that opinion, spud, and understand why you feel that way. I sincerely apologize that you feel cheated. No “but…” No “you’re wrong and here’s why...” Just an honest “I’m sorry”

Posted by snewell12 on 11/7/2022 1:12:00 PM (view original):
I made an assumption on the ticket which definitely could be incorrect but I've opened tickets in the past and they are no longer available. So, I assumed a ticket from three years ago would not be available anymore..

We all make mistakes. We face the consequences, learn from it, and move on. I hope to see you again someday sooner than later.

i can confirm... there is a link somewhere in the system to see old tickets from the old system. i know i have seen them back to at least 2010.

Spud, we can disagree on that and it's fine. I fully expect others to disagree as well. They didn't break\hack the system somehow. They exploited an unintentional benefit using buttons provided by the game designers. Semantics on 'cheating'? We could debate all day long which has already been done many times over.

i would really like to see at least doogan re-instated. the dude was originally determined by CS not to be a violator, but he came here and owned his actions and was totally forthwright, because he believed he was not cheating. its ok to disagree with him, but i think its unambiguous that doogan felt he was not cheating, and also, 14 or something uses of an inform of redshirt in a year, that is quite minor usage. absolutely someone using at the level of doogan, could fail to recognize that those around him were not using it. its different if you use something 100 times or 600 like that one dude, to not realize that folks around you aren't getting the same advantage. doogan's 14 uses over a year would basically be imperceptible to an outside observer, and in turn, he would really have no way to know if other users around him were using at the same level he was.

doogan's honesty is why he is in trouble today, and that just doesn't seem right.

i feel like all these guys got REALLY serious penalties, based on mob rage more than the actual goings-on. i do think long time coaches like robinhood, cimmy, were on the wrong side of the line. this is a small community which relies on coaches to self-police, and i think long time successful coaches just need to be held to a higher standard. i'm convinced from these guys' words that they didn't think they were gaining an unfair advantage. but i think they should have known, and some punishment is in order, largely to deter future offenders from being able to hide behind 'i didn't know!'. but these punishments are more in line with explicit, overt acts of cheating, like recruiting collusion on a substantial scale, or like using multiple browsers or HTTP request modifiers to beat game integrity checks, that sort of thing.

also, that one guy with 600, it appears he knew the deeper exploit, the positive cycle from repeated uses of this on a single player. there's a real difference in my mind between using this once per recruit, and using it 20 times per recruit over many recruits. the latter is clearly an exploit and any user of it has to know. the former could be reasonably rationalized as the system working as intended. everything is shades of gray on these issues, but i think that is a material distinguishing factor. the way that 600 guy abused this is quite different than the rest of them. but even there, doogan to me seems a significantly lower offender than these other guys. he obviously got railroaded here.

Robin, whether it matters to you or not, you're good in my book. Been at this a long time and you've been ever present during that time. You've been a great conference mate and mentor to so many. I disagree with the punishment for this glitch and hope you stick with it and come back to Naismith D-1 soon. I think you'll find you'll be welcomed back by most in the conference.

Whatever you choose to do, good luck and God bless.

What are we debating at this point? I thought that the group of six has been given their access back, and need to re-start in Division-3 ??

So the debate now, i think, is whether or not they can get their records back?

Would everyone be satisfied if their names went back on their team history pages, but for each HD season over the last 3 Earth years, their accomplishments had a couple of asterisks added?

So:

** Gained enormous advantage by stacking their teams with juiced rosters because of a recruiting glitch.

NT Final Four **
NT 2nd Round **
NT National Champions **
NT 1st Round **
etc?

npb, I mainly just needed to get my thoughts off my chest. A little bulletin board therapy if that's even possible.

Yes, I think if there is any remaining debate it would be if the severity too harsh but I doubt CS would make any changes at this point so probably not going anywhere anyway.

Posted by snewell12 on 11/7/2022 3:34:00 PM (view original):
npb, I mainly just needed to get my thoughts off my chest. A little bulletin board therapy if that's even possible.

Yes, I think if there is any remaining debate it would be if the severity too harsh but I doubt CS would make any changes at this point so probably not going anywhere anyway.

Hi Newell,
Yes, i liked your post. My post was more for other posts, in honestly trying to gauge where all of us are currently. I think the group of six just wants their records back (cuz they *have* been allowed back to play HD i think?)?

I mean, say, the Final Four for 1985 Memphis State is vacated, but has an asterisk.

Thanks a lot for the post, nams. That means a lot. I feel the same about you and wish you the best.

And, to answer the question, I’m not here to ask for anything. I feel like the punishment was FAR too harsh, but many disagree, and it’s not for me to decide what’s fair anyway, so it doesn’t matter what I think.

Posted by snewell12 on 11/7/2022 1:12:00 PM (view original):
I made an assumption on the ticket which definitely could be incorrect but I've opened tickets in the past and they are no longer available. So, I assumed a ticket from three years ago would not be available anymore..

We all make mistakes. We face the consequences, learn from it, and move on. I hope to see you again someday sooner than later.

FYI I definitely didn't save a screenshot of it at the time bc why would I? If you've seen it it says "3 years ago" next to the question. Pretty clearly grabbed it last week when i found out what happened to my account.

Given that the support ticket has a clear date of discovery, I don't see why the resumes have to be erased before that. Doesn't make a ton of sense to me. That's 12+ years of history without this glitch.

I didn't even know about this whole situation until I went to a different conference and they mentioned it. Robinhood has been kicking my tail in DII for years now, no special advantage needed.

Posted by npb7768 on 11/7/2022 3:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snewell12 on 11/7/2022 3:34:00 PM (view original):
npb, I mainly just needed to get my thoughts off my chest. A little bulletin board therapy if that's even possible.

Yes, I think if there is any remaining debate it would be if the severity too harsh but I doubt CS would make any changes at this point so probably not going anywhere anyway.

Hi Newell,
Yes, i liked your post. My post was more for other posts, in honestly trying to gauge where all of us are currently. I think the group of six just wants their records back (cuz they *have* been allowed back to play HD i think?)?

I mean, say, the Final Four for 1985 Memphis State is vacated, but has an asterisk.

npb, I think people are channeling what frustration they have left in the wrong direction at this point.

robinhood has been more than forthcoming...so has doogan and cimmy. Whether they admit a "crime" or steadfastly refuse to cop to any wrongdoing is nearing irrelevance in my book. I accept all of their statements, whether I actually agree with their positions or not.

What I am beginning to take serious issue with is WIS itself. WIS created the situation by not investing in their product over the past number of years. That's not an indictment on the current admin. When something was brought to public attention, WIS panicked and felt they needed to make a quick decision. WIS then had the audacity to pass the buck of any aftermath onto we paying customers by claiming that their hand was forced to put out this fire. That's BS and that IS an indictment on the current admin.

The decision to ban and/or strip user ID history was not MOB rule, that was WIS rule. At this point, I hope people realize that WIS made the biggest blunders in this fiasco...and that's exactly what this has turned into, a complete fiasco...like the British Army at Gallipoli. What would actually put some of this frustration to bed might be some contrition by WIS itself. It's their damn game. They should be held responsible in the final accounting.

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/7/2022 8:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 11/7/2022 3:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snewell12 on 11/7/2022 3:34:00 PM (view original):
npb, I mainly just needed to get my thoughts off my chest. A little bulletin board therapy if that's even possible.

Yes, I think if there is any remaining debate it would be if the severity too harsh but I doubt CS would make any changes at this point so probably not going anywhere anyway.

Hi Newell,
Yes, i liked your post. My post was more for other posts, in honestly trying to gauge where all of us are currently. I think the group of six just wants their records back (cuz they *have* been allowed back to play HD i think?)?

I mean, say, the Final Four for 1985 Memphis State is vacated, but has an asterisk.

npb, I think people are channeling what frustration they have left in the wrong direction at this point.

robinhood has been more than forthcoming...so has doogan and cimmy. Whether they admit a "crime" or steadfastly refuse to cop to any wrongdoing is nearing irrelevance in my book. I accept all of their statements, whether I actually agree with their positions or not.

What I am beginning to take serious issue with is WIS itself. WIS created the situation by not investing in their product over the past number of years. That's not an indictment on the current admin. When something was brought to public attention, WIS panicked and felt they needed to make a quick decision. WIS then had the audacity to pass the buck of any aftermath onto we paying customers by claiming that their hand was forced to put out this fire. That's BS and that IS an indictment on the current admin.

The decision to ban and/or strip user ID history was not MOB rule, that was WIS rule. At this point, I hope people realize that WIS made the biggest blunders in this fiasco...and that's exactly what this has turned into, a complete fiasco...like the British Army at Gallipoli. What would actually put some of this frustration to bed might be some contrition by WIS itself. It's their damn game. They should be held responsible in the final accounting.

Amen! None of us had a thing to do with the punishment. We can talk all we want (good or bad so to speak). That’s what forums are for. CS handles things, not coaching chatter that has EVERY opinion. Meaning people strongly for and strongly against.

"doogan's honesty is why he is in trouble today, and that just doesn't seem right." You're not right, he was actually penalized for repeatedly cheating, which is the opposite of being honest.

"The decision to ban and/or strip user ID history was not MOB rule, that was WIS rule." Correct, they're the ones who decided not to kick out the cheaters, maybe because they sensed there would be a lot of support for cheating and the cheaters in the forums. Turns out they were right. Apparently cheating is okay in HD.