HD Recruiting "Exploit" Investigation/Findings Topic

Is it just me, but a -1700 AP penalty for informing of redshirt and then removing it seem insanely out of wack? I am glad that is no longer the case.
11/2/2022 12:42 PM
Great Job!
11/2/2022 12:48 PM
Thank you to Benis, CS, and the passionately engaged HD community
11/2/2022 12:59 PM
Thank you for the prompt response and the transparency in sharing what happened.

Question about this quote from Ccobb:
"As a patch, everyone is now on more equal footing relative to their recruiting multiplier rather than playing by different rules."

My reading comprehension might be failing me, but are you suggesting that prestige and/or preferences will have less of a multiplying factor on APs given the patch? It seems like this sentence is saying we'll see affects outside of the Inform/Remove Redshirt notification patch.

Thanks for the hard work on this.
11/2/2022 1:13 PM
Thank you Ccobb and CS. Even if I don’t agree with punishment or the existence of cheating here, I applaud the Quick yet thorough investigation, and all of this transparency. We all appreciate what you’re doing here, and we’re excited to see such activity and response. Excited to see some hinted at additional changes on the recruiting front. Though I do have my team in Iba shooting a ridiculous amount of 3’s and have all season just to have an edge in perimeter offense recruits, and I fear that’s going away. It’s going to be fun to try to track and see which preferences matter more than others and how that has changed. good luck going forward to all!
11/2/2022 1:26 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I am disappointed that Sir Benis only has a total rating of 728.
11/2/2022 1:35 PM
Posted by dw172300 on 11/2/2022 1:13:00 PM (view original):
Thank you for the prompt response and the transparency in sharing what happened.

Question about this quote from Ccobb:
"As a patch, everyone is now on more equal footing relative to their recruiting multiplier rather than playing by different rules."

My reading comprehension might be failing me, but are you suggesting that prestige and/or preferences will have less of a multiplying factor on APs given the patch? It seems like this sentence is saying we'll see affects outside of the Inform/Remove Redshirt notification patch.

Thanks for the hard work on this.
No, they still will factor as normal. However, previous to this patch negative recruiting actions were limited for teams with higher prefs/prestige. This created an exponential advantage for those with good prefs/prestige, when applying negative actions... Not necessarily one relative to the normal and proportional advantage they gain with prefs/prestige. Now regardless if positive or negative, the negative actions will be applied proportional to the prefs/prestige multiplier.
11/2/2022 1:36 PM
Reading your investigation, which was very well written, and noticed you mentioned "withdraw scholarship" and other elements would be changed. Could you elaborate? As a D3 coach, I use positive actions like promised minutes, promised starts, home visits or a campus visit to withdraw a scholarship but not completely fall off their considering list. Will this new change impact that?
11/2/2022 1:43 PM (edited)
Good to know! Thanks again!
11/2/2022 1:39 PM
thanks Chris and WIS staff, for the thorough and prompt effort!

i agree these guys should have known better, and did something wrong, and that consequence is in order. i do think a lifetime ban is a bit much and is influenced by the 20+ page forum thread on the subject. finding edge case behavior in recruiting and using it to your advantage has been part of WIS forever, and while this is different in some ways, i don't think the difference is enough to lifetime ban someone over (redshirting a senior for extra resources is allowed today, pulldowns were very glitchy feeling, promise offering/withdrawl historically has been used in ways CS felt were manipulative and removed from the game, the NBA preference, so forth).
11/2/2022 2:38 PM
I just wanted to re-post this for Robinhood as he isn't able to on the forums. But this was his response on the discord channel:


hey everyone, this is robinhood. I’ve never been to discord – didn’t even really know what it was – before this. but, my brother told me that he was doing something called an Ask Me Anything. again, didn’t know what that even was until now. but, I do appreciate this opportunity to be able to say something. I hope I don’t ramble, but this is just an off-the-cuff kind of stream of conscious, so I probably will. you don’t owe me anything, so ignore me if you’d like

first of all, I’m sorry. not “sorry because I got caught,” but sorry because I have broken the trust of a community of which I have been a part for almost 20 years. when the admin post came out today and I saw the numbers, I was pretty embarrassed. I honestly had no idea that we were the only ones who knew about this (other than swenske, whom we’ve never met and have absolutely no idea who he is). and, knowing that now, I see how this was a huge advantage and one that was unfair. I get the outrage. if I were reading this about someone else, I’d probably be ****** too. I’m not excusing anything nor am I claiming to be a victim. I take full accountability for what I did and will accept whatever punishment is deemed necessary. that said I hope you believe me when I say that, given what I knew at the time, I didn’t consider it blatant cheating, in any way. I’m not trying to excuse anything or plead ignorance. I knew it helped and was probably more than intended, but, to be honest, I thought of it as a part of the game that required using open, permissible actions, so I did it. It’s not unlike knowing that all internationals accept a redshirt (I had no idea about this and wish I had, but I don’t consider knowing that to be cheating). I’m not trying to diminish it, I’m really not. I own what I did and am willing to face whatever penalty is deemed just. I just don’t want people to think that we were sitting back here, rubbing our hands together and saying “oooh, we’ve got a way to cheat the system, let’s do it!” anyway, bottom line about this is that I just wanted to apologize to the community for breaking that trust. it doesn’t matter what I thought when I did it or why I did what I did, what matters is that the community of which I have been a part for 18 years now legitimately questions my integrity. so, for that and anything that I may have unfairly robbed anyone of, I’m very sorry.

also, I’d like to clear up a couple of things, if you don’t mind. I hope you see me as forthright and honest about all of this because that’s really how I am

1). I understand and totally appreciate the point of “why didn’t you share this with the community?” that’s completely fair, and we probably should have. but, for lack of a better answer, we just didn’t even think about it. we weren’t trying to keep some big secret. we talked about it openly amongst us (just as we discuss the phillies world series or the next eagles game) and just didn’t think to make it public on the forums or send a follow-up to CS. we probably should have, but we didn’t. I wish we had done that or had a better answer as to why we didn’t, but believe me it wasn’t some nefarious conspiracy here. It was just a couple dudes who don’t really post much on the forums

2). I have absolutely no idea who swenske is, where he’s from, or what he was doing (other than what has been put out in these posts), so I can’t speak for him. but, yes, cimmy, doogan, and I all know each other. cimmy is my brother and doogan is our cousin. it was doogan who discovered Hoops Dynasty back in 2005 (while I was out of the country serving in the Peace Corps) and when I got back to the states, he told cimmy and I that we would love this game. he was right. we did. so, yes, we all know each other and have never once tried to hide that. but, we were not in any collusion and live in different states. do we avoid battling each other sometimes, sure, but I also avoid battling a lot of really good coaches because they’re good. do we, subconsciously, avoid battling each other more than someone we might not know? I don’t know…probably? but, I’m not sure how to fix that except to say “no friends or family can ever play together.” so, please understand that we were not in collusion other than the fact that we know each other, we’re a tight-knit family, and we loved WIS, so we talked about it a lot

3). I tried this tactic or whatever you want to call it in D2 once and it completely backfired (didn’t sign a single guy I wanted), so I never used it again in D2. believe what you will, but that is the truth. one of the things that hits me the hardest about this whole thing is the community I built in the GLIAC in Allen and, especially, the Heartland in Crum. those were my two favorite teams, and that was because of a bunch of people I’ve never met, didn’t even know their real names, but still considered friends (which is weird for me, a guy who isn’t a very online kind of guy). so, if any of them are able to see this, please know that I respect you all, never got any unfair leg up in D2, and am sorry that I have tainted our great conferences. I will probably miss those Heartland guys more than I miss the game itself. I have also built great relationships in the SEC in Naismith and will miss all those guys (nams, getiguy, sne – also a heartland guy, etc) too, but they might not be as quick to forgive me seeing as I did use this tactic at Ole Miss for the past couple of years, and that’s fine, I own that. either way, I will miss the guys that I respect and competed against for years and years

4). I’d like to say I don’t care about my legacy on some random sports simulation site, but I’m human, so I do a little bit. again, this will likely fall on deaf ears (and that’s fine), but please know that cimmy, doogan, and I were highly successful championship-level coaches long before this thing started. and, as I’ve said, I never used it in D2, so anything I’ve accomplished there was done without any unfair advantage. again, this is probably shouting into the wind here, which is fine, but it makes me feel better to say it

5). I do think CS seriously dropped the ball here in multiple ways throughout the process, but I don’t want to make a big deal about it because I don’t want to deflect from my own accountability or seem like I am trying to make excuses. but I really was under the impression that they knew about it and decided not to fix it. was that a subconcious version of some willful ignorance on our part? ya, probably. I fully admit that. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think that the benefit was probably a lot more than would have been intended, but we honestly thought that we had appropriately reported it to those that need to know. in retrospect, you all are probably right in saying that we should have brought it up again, but we really were under the impression that we had immediately exposed what we thought was potentially a loophole and nothing was done. and, we were not explicitly ignoring some directive to re-report it. we thought we had and then went on our way. is that okay? no, probably not, in retrospect. but, we never explicitly decided that we had “gotten away with something” and never actively chose not to re-report it. again, I’m not at all saying that we did enough and I am not blaming CS for our actions here. I own what I did and I’m sorry.

I am glad that WIS has such a strong and engaged community. and I respect those of you with well thought-out opinions on either side. that says to me that the site will sustain itself for years to come, which is a good thing

okay, I think that’s it. I like to think I’m an accountable person, so I will answer any questions or take any comments when I get a chance. even if it’ll make you feel better to call me whatever you want to call me and have me hear it. that’s fine too, I’m sure I deserve it. I just want to thank you for reading this with an open mind

ps…I have no ability to speak for myself on the site, so if someone were to repost this to a forum, I wouldn’t hate it. if not, no worries
11/2/2022 2:58 PM
good post by robinhood. thanks for sharing basketts.
11/2/2022 3:16 PM
Thanks to Benis, Chris, and the rest of the WIS staff for noticing it and doing swift/decisive action. Was dead wrong about the extent of Swenske's usage of this, so I'm sorry about that Benis.
11/2/2022 3:34 PM
I find two things hilarious here:
665 is such an egregious and flagrant overuse - it's indefensible but also so stupid and what led to this whole thing blowing up. Imagine using an exploit/cheat 554 times more than the next biggest offender.

Benis now has to play against himself in the CT semi-final tonight and possibly at least 4 more times...

Also, great response, well said, well handled, I am still hopeful that the four lesser exploiters are not banned for life, but all in all, appreciate you Chris and team. And much love for the community.
11/2/2022 3:52 PM
It might be wise to notify anyone that competed against the cheaters and retired within the past few years. They might want to know they got the short end of the stick.
11/2/2022 4:25 PM
◂ Prev 1|2|3|4...18 Next ▸
HD Recruiting "Exploit" Investigation/Findings Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.