A title run is the equivalent of an extra 52 win season. Imo that is weighted plenty fair.

yea, sounds about right

Posted by steelers821 on 12/22/2023 6:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pexetera on 12/22/2023 6:26:00 PM (view original):
help me understand the point system. Not that I expect to win the autodraft league, but if you win 2 out of the 6 championships amid 24 owners, that's doesn't get you in top 3? How many points do you get for winning a championship?

I remember in the early days of Savage there was an imbalanced point system. It was heavily weighted toward regular season wins and I suggested to change it to make it equally weighted to playoffs with bonuses for championships and getting all 5 teams in.

Regular season win 1
playoff win 2
championship 20
6 teams in playoff bonus 20.
ragged, chewy, Rob and Ben all got the 6 team bonus.

It’s the same formula as the one in Savage. Right now you have 34 less regular season wins and 19 less playoff wins than 3rd place and the same amount of titles. Plus the top three all got the 6 team bonus.

2 titles would be enough for fourth place despite missing the playoffs three times. I think that’s probably pretty balanced.

I simple fix to the playoff tank rules is to automatically lose the next game - not sure if the sim can do that. but no matter what it should be stated in the rules that it is not allowed. If an owner still feels the need to CHEAT (yes, I said it), then they can be banned from future tourneys. Unless the supreme court says its unconstitutional.

so how many games should Greg Popovich automatically have lost? I can think of plenty of games where Kawhi rested. and many more examples than just Kawhi. Resting seems like it's part of the NBA now.

Not in the playoffs

Posted by pexetera on 12/28/2023 5:33:00 AM (view original):
so how many games should Greg Popovich automatically have lost? I can think of plenty of games where Kawhi rested. and many more examples than just Kawhi. Resting seems like it's part of the NBA now.

Yeah imo it should exclusively be a penalty in the playoffs. It just seems to give teams way too big of an advantage. Kind of frustrating you can get similar rest benefits to having a bye.

I used to employ the playoff tank long ago. When it happens to me now, I do not care. I think it’s part of this game. It is a spreadsheet numbers crunch and it’s just a creative way to maximize your peak performance. The game is already unlike real life basketball so to me this is just another variance.
However, I have an idea for a compromise. At the start of the series before any games have simmed, you must declare which game you are going to rest your starters or “tank” or play duren 48 minutes. Whatever you call it, if an owner declares it, it allows the other owner to matchup and prepare for it by resting their players too.
? And this seems like a good place to talk about minute targets. We all know by now that 19,300 is the total minimum you want to keep everyone at 100%. With playoff minute stretching, I see that 18,250 is all you need for the playoffs for you to keep everyone at 100% health. This is why you see so many teams take scrubs like duren, garner, and Collins because they are the cheapest per minute players to fill the minutes not needed in the playoffs but that you do need for the regular season.
To take this one step further, if you were going to tank 1 playoff game, you could multiply 18,250 by 6/7 to get 15,650 minutes. That means that all you need is 15,650 minutes of your top quality players. This is only valid if you have at least 5 players to play all 48 minutes of the “tank game”. Most of the time those scrubs foul too much and don’t play the full 48. So i might recommend a midway target of 17,000 minutes of your top quality players and 2,300 minutes of your scrubs. This will make making the playoffs much harder, but that’s one of the reasons why you see 5 and 6 seeds beating 1’s and 2’s to win championships.

I really like this idea too. If I know Giannis is being rested I’m not playing my guys at 5% over like I might in a regular playoff game. Honestly that’s what sometimes ****** me off the most Is running my guys down in a game where I’m going to win by 97 points. I’ve tanked before as well(although only in the ODL/45) but I just don’t want to lose a competitive advantage that I know significantly better owners than me use.

Sometime next week, I'm planning on hosting a video chat where anyone interested can get on and talk about BOWIS 2024. We can discuss any changes to leagues we may want as well as the tanking issue. At the end, anyone on the chat will be able to vote on what we talk about and those will be the rules going forward.

Still have to figure out which evening is going to work best, but please offer any suggestions as to conversation topics we may need to address.

Posted by chewy3344 on 12/28/2023 8:09:00 AM (view original):
I used to employ the playoff tank long ago. When it happens to me now, I do not care. I think it’s part of this game. It is a spreadsheet numbers crunch and it’s just a creative way to maximize your peak performance. The game is already unlike real life basketball so to me this is just another variance.
However, I have an idea for a compromise. At the start of the series before any games have simmed, you must declare which game you are going to rest your starters or “tank” or play duren 48 minutes. Whatever you call it, if an owner declares it, it allows the other owner to matchup and prepare for it by resting their players too.
? And this seems like a good place to talk about minute targets. We all know by now that 19,300 is the total minimum you want to keep everyone at 100%. With playoff minute stretching, I see that 18,250 is all you need for the playoffs for you to keep everyone at 100% health. This is why you see so many teams take scrubs like duren, garner, and Collins because they are the cheapest per minute players to fill the minutes not needed in the playoffs but that you do need for the regular season.
To take this one step further, if you were going to tank 1 playoff game, you could multiply 18,250 by 6/7 to get 15,650 minutes. That means that all you need is 15,650 minutes of your top quality players. This is only valid if you have at least 5 players to play all 48 minutes of the “tank game”. Most of the time those scrubs foul too much and don’t play the full 48. So i might recommend a midway target of 17,000 minutes of your top quality players and 2,300 minutes of your scrubs. This will make making the playoffs much harder, but that’s one of the reasons why you see 5 and 6 seeds beating 1’s and 2’s to win championships.

Yeah pre-announcing your rest games is what I proposed earlier in BOWIS. It’s the best option honestly, so at least you don’t exhaust your own players during the tank game. That’s the biggest frustration about it for me, not the tank itself.

How did you reach the figure of 18,250 minutes? I think that a lot of people believe (used to believe?) that all the players got an extra 10% in the playoffs, but once Ben posted that that is not true.

I have looked at the fatigue data, but I have not saved my work to show and prove the research so take this for what it is worth. Also, I round up to be conservative.

Minutes Per Game	48	x
Games	82	x
Players	5	x
	19,680	Total
2% Reg Season Bump	1.02	/
	19,294	Reg Season Baseline
	19,680
8% Playoff Bump	1.08	/
	18,222	Playoff Minute Baseline

Okay, but is there an 8% playoff bump? I have never heard of that.

This is based off of seeing that a player with 2410 minutes who played in 18 playoff games was at 100% health when playing 570 playoff minutes in those 18 games vs another season playing 576 minutes in 18 playoff games but showing 99% health. I have noticed consistency using this 8% mark with other players too.