WIS team boxing Topic

lostnfound74
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I played that punch over and over ......thing is, his weight wasn't in it;, unless I missed something. Ali was not an extra hard hitter. ( His left jab was hard, though) Seen that close up.. but I can miss stuff. If the shot is reasonably hard, you usually come off your right foot (Unless U R southpaw) Or with a left, .. it's off the left side. Left hook is the hardest punch to learn to throw in boxing.. takes a lot of practice, and still some guys don't have much. It looked as though Ali was moving when he hit.. with neither foot really moving him into a power mode. But I will look again. Liston was never down more than twice before that, if I remember right

Here is what I think happened with Liston. His natural weapon was the intimidation factor. IMO it was HUGE when he dropped Patterson, and I have often thought with an added 10 lbs, Floyd might have bested him. ..but Sonny could not intimidate Ali, as he was fearless, and bold as they come. Plus a super showman. He was a big guy, too

I think Liston knew he was going to get used as a punching bag until he was so worn down, Ali would land a 3 punch combo and it would be lights out. This is no lie, My old coach aka Elio Ius had a harder rt hand than Ali... but Elio was a big hitter . Elio was 6-2 and 205 at age 40.. Had a boom boom right. Former Can GG HW champion..

Glad to see a fellow boxing fan, cuz they are now very rare with the Progress of MMA and UFC.. plus the crime factor is a total turnoff in pro boxing.

I know some guys who have been there and they all said the same thing... dirty business and loaded with corruption.. The MMA and UFC appear to be pretty clean, so far
12/26/2023 2:40 AM (edited)
Lennybruce26
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The short sudden compact punch
carries some TNT. I don’t know the opponent but Ali also used it to KO a different foe.
Joe Walcott also used the anchor punch when he sent Ezzard Charles into LaLa land and a nap on the canvas. That punch was also so quick you can’t see it.

I completely ( 100% ) believe that Ali knocked out Liston but for the sake of discussion if Liston was taking a dive that night he would have fallen after a right hook to the chin that everyone would see.

For anyone interested in this there is a zapruder film of the punch in slow motion. You can easily see Sonny’s head snap back and that could not be faked.
I say it wasn’t able to be faked because it came from an angle where Sonny didn’t see it. He was waiting on a looping left.
12/28/2023 11:22 PM (edited)
lostnfound74
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Posted by Lennybruce26 on 12/27/2023 9:40:00 PM (view original):
The short sudden compact punch
carries some TNT. I don’t know the opponent but Ali also used it to KO a different foe.
Joe Walcott also used the anchor punch when he sent Ezzard Charles into LaLa land and a nap on the canvas. That punch was also so quick you can’t see it.

I completely ( 100% ) believe that Ali knocked out Liston but for the sake of discussion if Liston was taking a dive that night he would have fallen after a right hook to the chin that everyone would see.

For anyone interested in this there is a zapruder film of the punch in slow motion. You can easily see Sonny’s head snap back and that could not be faked.
I say it wasn’t able to be faked because it came from an angle where Sonny didn’t see it. He was waiting on looping left.
Good observations re Charles and Walcott. IMO both boxers very unheralded by Ring Magazine, and by sports media in general.

Question: Why did you block my site mail?? If you don't want to answer.ok, but am puzzled a little

Happy New Year
12/28/2023 10:59 PM
lostnfound74
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How long did you box for? You say a lot that a a non boxer would not think about
12/28/2023 11:01 PM
Lennybruce26
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Posted by lostnfound74 on 12/28/2023 10:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Lennybruce26 on 12/27/2023 9:40:00 PM (view original):
The short sudden compact punch
carries some TNT. I don’t know the opponent but Ali also used it to KO a different foe.
Joe Walcott also used the anchor punch when he sent Ezzard Charles into LaLa land and a nap on the canvas. That punch was also so quick you can’t see it.

I completely ( 100% ) believe that Ali knocked out Liston but for the sake of discussion if Liston was taking a dive that night he would have fallen after a right hook to the chin that everyone would see.

For anyone interested in this there is a zapruder film of the punch in slow motion. You can easily see Sonny’s head snap back and that could not be faked.
I say it wasn’t able to be faked because it came from an angle where Sonny didn’t see it. He was waiting on looping left.
Good observations re Charles and Walcott. IMO both boxers very unheralded by Ring Magazine, and by sports media in general.

Question: Why did you block my site mail?? If you don't want to answer.ok, but am puzzled a little

Happy New Year
Accidental.
12/28/2023 11:19 PM
Lennybruce26
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Posted by lostnfound74 on 12/28/2023 11:01:00 PM (view original):
How long did you box for? You say a lot that a a non boxer would not think about
I pride myself for thinking outside the box.
Happy New Year.
12/28/2023 11:20 PM
Lennybruce26
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On Sonny Liston. Before his untimely demise he was boxing very well. When Ali was suspended it would have been a dynamite idea to have Ali and Liston sign for a trilogy. It would have made a ton of money for both of them and Ali would keep boxing a real opponent and a big payday for Sonny and a way to retire with dough. Ali could have also fought Stevenson and some other aging but still talented and ranked fighters. He would have kept sharp and would have beaten Frazier in the first fight.

Before anything is said about Frazier he is my second favorite fighter after Rocky Marciano.
12/28/2023 11:29 PM
Lennybruce26
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Trivia - we all know that Floyd Patterson who was not really a true heavyweight fought Liston and Ali but there is another fighter that you might not realize fought both of them PLUS George Foreman.
Dont cheat - honor system - do you know who that fighter was.

BTW - If they came in just under the heavyweight requirement an interesting fight would have been Marvis Frazier vs Floyd Patterson.
12/28/2023 11:36 PM
lostnfound74
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Posted by Lennybruce26 on 12/28/2023 11:36:00 PM (view original):
Trivia - we all know that Floyd Patterson who was not really a true heavyweight fought Liston and Ali but there is another fighter that you might not realize fought both of them PLUS George Foreman.
Dont cheat - honor system - do you know who that fighter was.

BTW - If they came in just under the heavyweight requirement an interesting fight would have been Marvis Frazier vs Floyd Patterson.
I gotta think on that one. I Think maybe Tex Cobb, . LHW used to cap at 175. Imo = insane. 190 division badly needed.

Patterson was kind of under rated, and he COULD hit.

Still thinking. I have 2-3 in my head bur forget the names.

NO Frazier. I don't think he ever fought Liston. So who else did Liston half kill??

Still thinking. Not Ron Lyle. not Quarry, cuz I don't think he ever fought Liston. Same with Shavers.. .. Too young.

I know Foreman sparred with Liston.. he said Sonny was a pain maker. George would have been about22 or so. So who else was 19 to 23 in 1965? Ken Norton? I don't think so. ..

Liston was done boxing in 1965. I was 20 y.o. at that time. This guy had to be a couple yrs older than me, at least, but not more than 25.. I give up

OK, time's up. Who is that guy?? Ernie Terrell??
12/30/2023 6:15 PM (edited)
Lennybruce26
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Chuck Wepner. His career spanned eras.
The cruiserweight division is I think 190 to 200.
Ill check to make sure.
Rocky never ever fought as a heavyweight in today’s divisions He never came close to 200 lbs.
I think that it is fair to say that he was the best heavyweight of his era and would be the best ever cruiserweight once that division started.
lf he became a boxer much younger and was a golden gloves boxer and turned pro in 1941 he would have been champ by 1945 and had an even more illustrious career. Joe Louis said it and I believe he would have beaten a younger Joe Louis. Perhaps he would have fought a little heavier say 195 or so and he would have been able to handle a slow stalker who never had the power of a Tyson or a Foreman.
12/30/2023 8:14 PM (edited)
lostnfound74
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Posted by Lennybruce26 on 12/30/2023 8:08:00 PM (view original):
Chuck Werner.
The cruiserweight division is I think 190 to 200.
Ill check to make sure.
Rocky never ever fought as a heavyweight in today’s divisions He never came close to 200 lbs.
I think that it is fair to say that he was the best heavyweight of his era and would be the best ever cruiserweight once that division started.
lf he became a boxer much younger and was a golden gloves
Chuck WePPner. I remembered it, About a minute before I got to this post. He was a banger, for sure

Cruiserweight is currently 181 to 195. I assume LHW is now 168 to 181. SMW 160-68. MW 152-160, Jr MW 147 to 152.. They totally skewed the Middleweight division. 147 to 156 should be MW and 156-68 SMW, and LHW to 181
1/15/2024 4:05 AM (edited)
Lennybruce26
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If cruiserweight is up to 195 then what is in 195 to 200?
1/2/2024 3:49 PM
lostnfound74
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Posted by Lennybruce26 on 1/2/2024 3:49:00 PM (view original):
If cruiserweight is up to 195 then what is in 195 to 200?
Dunno, Eric. They keep changing the numbers.. Maybe it is now 200

Once upon a time, you were a Lhw if you were 175 or under. so some poor dude at 180 and maybe 5-11 goes against a 6'4, 220 Lb real H weight. Kind of a mismatch.. So instead of adding just one division, and letting LHW become Super middleweight.. they buggered the whole thing.

My ideal was super middleweight 160 to 175, LHW to 193, and then whatever. meaning at 193+ you were HW.
1/15/2024 4:12 AM (edited)
lostnfound74
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Hardest hitter ever? Pound for pound? perhaps Julian Jackson, a 160 lb middleweight. Rocky a close second, by maybe 2%
1/15/2024 4:14 AM
Lennybruce26
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If you look at the great light heavyweights today, Glen, they have a much different build then Rocky who was by today’s weight class a light heavyweight.
I saw a championship light heavyweight bout recently - I’ll get the names after this post - and it was enlightening about our great favorite Rocky.

First of all when it comes to muscular arms - it is Rocky. These guys were strong and there was zero fat but Rocky’s arms were like steel. No exaggeration.
He was a combo swarmer and stalker.

The big difference between Marciano and other fighters were his legs. He had extremely muscular legs and many of his strongest punches were powerful because he use the legs for leverage and even today nobody has that going for them.

The champion light heavyweight today is said to be best pound for pound.


1/15/2024 12:11 PM
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