I can see Musial as not being classified as a LF - he spent more time (combined) in the other OF slots and also more time at 1B. The others are pretty good names, except Brock. I think Raines was a lot better than Brock.

Posted by tecwrg on 1/7/2014 10:22:00 PM (view original):
Willie Stargell.

Billy Williams.

Ralph Kiner.

I think all three are pretty close, which really reinforces the idea that Raines belongs.

Ernie Banks spent more time at first than ss, but no one in their right minds would characterize him as a 1b. Musial spent much more time in the outfield, primarily left, thus I classify him as a left fielder.

This is how the HOF lists players by position:

http://baseballhall.org/sites/default/files/all/Documents/roster_alphabetical_by_position_12-2013.pdf

One thing that I think is being lost somewhat - yes, Raines was one of the better LFs of all time, but he was also the 2nd best leadoff hitter of all-time.  When you build a team, Raines is exactly the guy you want leading off.  If Rickey didn't exist, IMO, Raines would have been in already for this reason.  Just because Rickey Henderson exists doesn't mean that Tim Raines shouldn't be in.

Also, I agree that Musial should be considered a LFer.  That's the position you think of when you think of Musial.

Who was the best number 6 hitter of all time?

When I say leadoff hitter, I mean the TYPE of player who want batting 1st.  The guy who works counts to start a game, who is a threat on the basepaths when the team's sluggers are up...those guys have value, they're a type of player that every team wants. 

Is it safe to assume BL is using WAR?    If so, there are half a dozen within 10%(and I believe BL has used 30% as a rough number for "meaningless") range of Raines.    I also believe BL has said dWAR is somewhat questionable.    If both of these hold true, Raines might be 5th or 15th.    Just eyeballing the stats, he's no better than 10th or so. 

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 9:33:00 AM (view original):
When I say leadoff hitter, I mean the TYPE of player who want batting 1st.  The guy who works counts to start a game, who is a threat on the basepaths when the team's sluggers are up...those guys have value, they're a type of player that every team wants. 

Haven't some teams used C as leadoffs?   They're not threats on the basepaths.   I think getting on base is the key for a leadoff guy. 

Raines falls short of the HOF because he just doesn't have a big enough body of work to make him HOF worthy.  He had a peak of around 7-8 years where he was very, very good.  But the last 13 years of his career, he was just a slightly above average player.  And only a part-time player over his final six seasons.

Posted by The Taint on 1/8/2014 9:26:00 AM (view original):
Who was the best number 6 hitter of all time?

Jorge Posada?

Posted by masterdebate on 1/8/2014 9:47:00 AM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 1/8/2014 9:26:00 AM (view original):
Who was the best number 6 hitter of all time?

Jorge Posada?

Automatic Hall of Famer!  Best sixth hitter ever!

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/8/2014 9:40:00 AM (view original):
Is it safe to assume BL is using WAR?    If so, there are half a dozen within 10%(and I believe BL has used 30% as a rough number for "meaningless") range of Raines.    I also believe BL has said dWAR is somewhat questionable.    If both of these hold true, Raines might be 5th or 15th.    Just eyeballing the stats, he's no better than 10th or so. 

I never said anything about 30% being meaningless. I said you should round WAR to the nearest whole number. Ignore the number after the decimal. So instead of 69.1, Raines is 69. Gwynn gets rounded up to 69. Duke Snider gets rounded up to 67. Joe DiMaggio down to 78. Etc.

Posted by tecwrg on 1/8/2014 9:44:00 AM (view original):
Raines falls short of the HOF because he just doesn't have a big enough body of work to make him HOF worthy.  He had a peak of around 7-8 years where he was very, very good.  But the last 13 years of his career, he was just a slightly above average player.  And only a part-time player over his final six seasons.

An 8 year peak isn't enough? Wow.