Another fu to Trammell..

Posted by tecwrg on 1/8/2014 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/8/2014 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 1/8/2014 12:19:00 PM (view original):
Less than two hours until most of BL's HOF picks (Raines, Edgar, etc.) are once again left on the outside looking in.

True, unfortunately.

My picks:

Bonds
Clemens
Maddux
Schilling
Bagwell
Mussina
Glavine
Thomas
Walker
Trammell
Martinez
Raines
Biggio
Piazza

LOL @ you and your picks.

Too bad Kenny Lofton fell off the ballot.

I do think it's funny that you keep bringing up Kenny Lofton after the argument has passed.  And your reasoning for not believing Kenny Lofton shouldn't be in the conversation is "It's Kenny Lofton."  Strong argument.

That's actually a pretty sound reason.   Who, when watching Lofton in his prime, thought "That's a HOFer right there"?

Fine.

How about "it's Kenny Lofton's career" as the reason for not believing he should be in the HOF?

Better?

I thought he was one of the best CFers in the game.

Posted by tecwrg on 1/8/2014 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Fine.

How about "it's Kenny Lofton's career" as the reason for not believing he should be in the HOF?

Better?

I wouldn't vote for him - but when you compare Lofton's careers to other CFers, you realize he ranks pretty high among them.

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 1:02:00 PM (view original):
I thought he was one of the best CFers in the game.

That makes three people who thought that.

You, bad_luck, and Kenny Lofton's mom.

Kenny Lofton's mom has yet to weigh in on the topic.    I think she's a "no".

Posted by tecwrg on 1/8/2014 1:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 1:02:00 PM (view original):
I thought he was one of the best CFers in the game.

That makes three people who thought that.

You, bad_luck, and Kenny Lofton's mom.

The guy who made 6 consecutive AS games wasn't one of the best CFers in the game?

EDIT: Maybe you thought I meant historically.  At that time.

Wouldn't that simply make him one of the most popular CFers at the time?      You know, because it's a fan vote.

Posted by bad_luck on 1/8/2014 12:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by byeags25 on 1/8/2014 12:08:00 PM (view original):
I normally try and stay away from these conversations, but I just don't understand the logic behind this.  If a difference of 1 over the course of a season isn't big, then how is a difference of 15-20 over the course of a 20 year career big?  It's the exact same thing.  The player with the higher number was worth 15-20 more wins over the course of their career, or 1 win per season (assuming both players played 20 seasons of course)

WAR is inexact. It's three components (offense, defense, and baserunning) measured in runs and then translated to wins above a theoretical replacement level.

It doesn't make sense to insist on it being exact, like 3.4 being measurably different than 3.1. Instead you round off. But, over 20 years, a 15 or 20 win difference is significant.

I understand what WAR is.  What I don't understand is the logic that over 1 year, a difference of 1 WAR is insignificant, but over 20 years, a difference of 20 WAR (1 per season) is significant

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/8/2014 1:14:00 PM (view original):
Wouldn't that simply make him one of the most popular CFers at the time?      You know, because it's a fan vote.

Sure, I could give you stats to back up my argument but I'm kinda over this.  FWIW, he started 3 times of those 6, meaning the other 3 times coaches got him on the team.  Griffey was blocking him.

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 1:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 1/8/2014 1:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 1:02:00 PM (view original):
I thought he was one of the best CFers in the game.

That makes three people who thought that.

You, bad_luck, and Kenny Lofton's mom.

The guy who made 6 consecutive AS games wasn't one of the best CFers in the game?

EDIT: Maybe you thought I meant historically.  At that time.

Is 6 the magic number?

Bernie Williams made 5 consecutive AS games.  Flanked on either side by receiving MVP consideration.

Kenny Lofton's HOF worthiness should be about the same as Bernie Williams' HOF worthiness.

This is where BL should jump in and say "Anybody who votes for Kenny Lofton and doesn't vote for Bernie Williams is an idiot".

Mike said "i dont think anyone thought they saw a HOFer when Lofton was playing in his prime" to which I replied "I thought he was one of the best CFers in the game."  To which you replied "There are 3 people who felt the same way" despite him being named to 6 all-star teams.  Generally, if you're one of the best of what you do in MLB for an extended period of time, it's not unreasonable to bring up the name in HOF discussion.

It's certainly OK to bring up Kenny Lofton in a HOF discussion, assuming it goes like this:

. . . .

Joe:  Next up for consideration is Kenny Lofton.

Bill:  Ha ha ha.  No.  Who's next on the list?

. . .