None of this **** is really relevant.  If you want to include guys who played roughly half their career at a position other than shortstop in the list of greatest shortstops of all time, fine.  Banks, A-Rod, and Yount are shortstops in that case.

If not, that's ok too.  Banks, A-Rod, and Yount don't count as shortstops.

Mike, if you want to argue that A-Rod will play better because of advacements in medicine, it's actually a fair point.  We will see what A-Rod can do, it will be interesting.  But it's also very possible that his hip acts up, or there's another injury, and then another and another...this happens often to 36+ year olds.  And he might not sit, he may play through it and struggle.  And yes, he is getting DHed because he's being rested to help him stay fresh and healthy...that's only going to continue, and he'll probably DH more often the older he gets. 

Posted by jrd_x on 6/13/2012 5:01:00 PM (view original):
None of this **** is really relevant.  If you want to include guys who played roughly half their career at a position other than shortstop in the list of greatest shortstops of all time, fine.  Banks, A-Rod, and Yount are shortstops in that case.

If not, that's ok too.  Banks, A-Rod, and Yount don't count as shortstops.

"...who played roughly half their career..."

This is the argument.  Mike thinks A-Rod will play significantly more time at 3b than SS, which would make him a 3b rather than a SS.  I'm arguing that won't happen.

And even if he does play that much time at 3b, he has put up such silly stats at SS that he's still on my list.  Mike wouldn't put him on the list because he feels he needs a higher percentage.

In that case, I agree that Arod won't be a full time third baseman for much longer.  He is already seeing more and more time at DH.  Even with 3 or 4 more years playing most of his games at third, it's not a huge gap between time at SS and time at 3b.

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/13/2012 5:35:00 PM (view original):
Mike, if you want to argue that A-Rod will play better because of advacements in medicine, it's actually a fair point.  We will see what A-Rod can do, it will be interesting.  But it's also very possible that his hip acts up, or there's another injury, and then another and another...this happens often to 36+ year olds.  And he might not sit, he may play through it and struggle.  And yes, he is getting DHed because he's being rested to help him stay fresh and healthy...that's only going to continue, and he'll probably DH more often the older he gets. 

I just think that athletes like A-Rod get the best medical treatment and the best trainers.    Hell, they even get the best diets because they have the best personal cooks.  People live longer and, if they're not complete fatasses, they're healthier.   A-Rod is doing better, homer-wise, this season than last, due to the off-season rehab of his hip problem, so I think last season was a blip on the radar.    Remember how Jeter was done last May?

Although, in retrospect, 140 games per season for the next 5 years is probably unlikely.   I think I'd like to adjust 700+ to 550-600.   He's not exactly GG at 3B so shifting him to DH to A) save his legs and B) get a better glove at 3B isn't that insane.    I don't think he's Giambi but the Yanks don't really have any DH prospects now that Montero is in Seattle.   But his primary position will be 3B.  Thus he's a 3B.

Guys, Mike clearly doesn't want ARod to be considered a shortstop because it would force him to adjust his rating of Jeter.

Yeah but it's fun to watch him try to twist his argument in order to count Banks as a SS but not Arod.

There's no twisting.  I explained it very simply.   I don't have to refer to my stat sheet to know what I've seen/read over the years.

Man, Arod had a 42/46  HR/SB season in 1998 and only finished 9th in MVP voting! Pretty epic year for offense in both leagues, but oddly enough both leagues had a clear MVP voting-wise even though its hard to tell why from the numbers.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1998.shtml#ALmvp

I'll stick with "The Wizard of OZ", Ozzie Smith.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/13/2012 10:44:00 PM (view original):
There's no twisting.  I explained it very simply.   I don't have to refer to my stat sheet to know what I've seen/read over the years.

Wouldn't the stat sheet be a more reliable way to evaluate a player?

Posted by jrd_x on 6/14/2012 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/13/2012 10:44:00 PM (view original):
There's no twisting.  I explained it very simply.   I don't have to refer to my stat sheet to know what I've seen/read over the years.

Wouldn't the stat sheet be a more reliable way to evaluate a player?

Maybe but that's kind of where this started.   "Player X is not a SS because he played 51% of his games at 1B."

To be clear, if people want to remember, and even classify, A-Rod as a SS when his career is done, I don't care.   But that won't change my opinion of A-Rod is a 3B and Banks is a SS.   Simply because that's how I'll "remember" them.

Sometimes a number doesn't tell the story.

You are free to "remember" (what's with the quotation marks???) them however you want.  But if you are interested in making an intelligent argument, how you remember them isn't a great place to start.

Another way to look at it is "Will A-Rod be remembered as a Yankee or a Mariner?"    I think most will say "Yankee".   Where did he play for the Yankees?