Poll: Best Shortstop Evah Topic

MikeT23
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Posted by jrd_x on 6/14/2012 1:31:00 PM (view original):
You are free to "remember" (what's with the quotation marks???) them however you want.  But if you are interested in making an intelligent argument, how you remember them isn't a great place to start.
I'm quite sure it is.   If you don't have any recall, which you've displayed time and time again that you don't, it's hard to stay on point and make an argument at all.   Memory is a pretty important factor in arguing anything.
6/14/2012 1:36 PM
toddcommish
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If you simply look at ARod's shortstop statistics, he's clearly a top-10 shortstop.  And that's completely ignoring his 3B years. 

Of course, he's also nowhere near Wagner (who is clearly the best)
6/14/2012 3:30 PM
MikeT23
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Again, it's just how one recognizes the position a player played.    A-Rod will be wearing a Yankee hat in the HOF.   He played 3B for the Yankees. 

Guys like Yount and Banks are a little tougher because they played their entire careers with one team.   Killebrew would be impossible, IMO.
6/14/2012 3:39 PM
burnsy483
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Gary Carter is in the HOF as an Expo.  Am I not allowed to call him one of the best Mets of all-time?
6/14/2012 3:53 PM
MikeT23
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You can call him whatever you want.    But I think most people remember him with the Expos.
6/14/2012 4:04 PM
jrd_x
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/14/2012 3:39:00 PM (view original):
Again, it's just how one recognizes the position a player played.    A-Rod will be wearing a Yankee hat in the HOF.   He played 3B for the Yankees. 

Guys like Yount and Banks are a little tougher because they played their entire careers with one team.   Killebrew would be impossible, IMO.
When you are talking about classifying a player at a position, what team he played for is irrelevant.  I actually agree with you on Arod.  I don't think he should count as a shortstop.  But I also don't think Banks (or Yount)  should count as a shortstop, at least not in the "here's a list of the greatest shortstops of all time" sense.
6/14/2012 5:20 PM
1899_spiders
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Posted by jrd_x on 6/14/2012 5:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/14/2012 3:39:00 PM (view original):
Again, it's just how one recognizes the position a player played.    A-Rod will be wearing a Yankee hat in the HOF.   He played 3B for the Yankees. 

Guys like Yount and Banks are a little tougher because they played their entire careers with one team.   Killebrew would be impossible, IMO.
When you are talking about classifying a player at a position, what team he played for is irrelevant.  I actually agree with you on Arod.  I don't think he should count as a shortstop.  But I also don't think Banks (or Yount)  should count as a shortstop, at least not in the "here's a list of the greatest shortstops of all time" sense.
Given that Yount played 329 more games at shortstop than at center field, and was at his best there, his position is best classified as shortstop. He is also obviously one of the all-time greats to fit as a shortstop. So which is true?

1. You acknowledge Yount is best placed at shortstop, but eliminate him from consideration because he played just under 55% of his games at short.
2. You classify Yount as a shortstop, but use only what he accomplished when his primary position was shortstop when ranking him.

The first means that no matter how deep you might take a shortstops ranking, Yount would not appear there. Because it is the only logical place he could be ranked, it would be as though he never played in the big leagues. The second eliminates enough of his accomplishments to take him out a top 10 ranking, and probably top 20.
6/14/2012 6:07 PM
MikeT23
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You may have hit on something there, spiders.  Most of Banks accomplishments were as a SS.   I wouldn't say he was holding on at 1B but he wasn't his best.   Because A-Rod's career is still a work in progress, I may be thinking he's got more in the tank than he does. Perhaps, when all is said and done, I'll feel the same about A-Rod as I do Banks.  I doubt it and you'll see why in the next sentence.

jrdx, I'm gonna say this one more time.  You don't get to decide what everyone else thinks.  I suspect A-Rod will be remembered as a Yankee.  As a Yankee, he played 3B.   Therefore, he's a 3B in my book.
6/14/2012 7:42 PM
jrd_x
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Really??? I totally thought I got to decide what everyone else thinks. I mean, that's what a post in a forum is, right? A royal proclamation of what you are allowed to think?

You're really blowing my mind with the idea that what I'm posting here just counts as my opinion and doesn't legally bind you to anything.
6/14/2012 8:37 PM
MikeT23
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Yes, really.   Don't pretend that I'm the only person who believes that you believe that your opinion is the only valid one and there's no reason for anyone to contradict it.
6/14/2012 9:00 PM
mudbone1969
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Shut up, Mike.  I'm listening to jrd_x!!
6/14/2012 9:17 PM
MikeT23
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Well, since I know you only listen to valid opinions, you chose the right poster!!!!
6/14/2012 9:19 PM
MikeT23
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ASK HIM ABOUT THAT ADVANCED METRIC, FIP!!!!!   IT'S PRETTY COMPLICATED SO YOU MANY NOT UNDERSTAND IT AT FIRST BUT HE'LL BE HAPPY TO SPEND 40 PAGES MAKING SURE YOU GET IT!!!!!

6/14/2012 9:20 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/14/2012 4:04:00 PM (view original):
You can call him whatever you want.    But I think most people remember him with the Expos.
I would guess most people don't (yes, I'm biased) but regardless, can the same people who consider Carter an Expo also consider him to be one of the best Mets of all-time?
6/15/2012 6:32 AM
MikeT23
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If they consider him an Expo, it seems that they wouldn't.
6/15/2012 8:05 AM
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