Yeah - I still like buff even though he's not a 'dry island' guy.... and I agree with the your Vancouver statement but for the flyers... no buff = no championship. No one will change my mind on this one.... he was the piece that shifted all the momentum by shutting down pronger.

If the hawks got rid of all bad character kaner would be packing.

I will say that this weight battle probably correlates a lot to his poor work ethic hawks fans continuously go on about ... thus his inconsistency on the ice. But as long like a guy like buff is not the cornerstone of the franchise he's a great player to have.

True..if we know it, then the Hawks fans know it, but are too stubborn to admit that he was a huge piece of the championship run,they wanna focus on Toews and others but if they are realistic ,they will come to  realize that guys like Buff are the reason they won the cup

Kane has low character?  LOL!!

He's nothing but a hard-worker and an achiever.  He steps his game up in the playoffs and is nothing but a performer. 

Buff's work ethic has always been a concern and this off-season...his first as a truly wealthy player....hasn't gone as his waistline has hoped.  He needs to take his career seriously. 

It's nice to be ignoring randle's posts.  I bet he still thinks Buff is the only reason we won the Cup.  I'd like to get him and Jtard together in a contest and see who can out-tard the other.

Posted by moy23 on 9/2/2011 9:27:00 PM (view original):
I will say that this weight battle probably correlates a lot to his poor work ethic hawks fans continuously go on about ... thus his inconsistency on the ice. But as long like a guy like buff is not the cornerstone of the franchise he's a great player to have.

See moy, that's the point I've tried to make since day 1 of Buff leaving. He was a big reason we won it all in 2010. He's a fantastic player who played his role well when he was on his game. The problem is that for the Hawks to keep him, they would have had to pay him like and give him the role of a core player.

That's where I think letting him go was the right decision. He just simply doesn't have either the desire, drive or will to be a "professional" athlete, and in this day and age where the competition is so fierce, a team cannot afford to have a player who is not committed to staying in shape as part of their core.

In the old days, guys like Guy Lafleur showed up to camp 30 lbs overweight and smoked 3 packs a day and still dominated. Players simply cannot afford to that today. The NHL is a full time job. Look at any player(s) who show up to camp out of shape and the starts to their season and the impact of a good off-season work ethic is plain to see.

If a role-player, as Buff was for the Hawks in 2010, has a tough time being committed or is simply inconsistent, it doesn't hurt the team as much as if a top-line player goes through the same thing. Look at the Thrashers last season. Their record almost perfectly reflected Buff's performance because he was on the ice 25 minutes a night. They went as he went. Simply put, if Andrew Ladd didn't have such a strong overall season, that team finishes last.

That is why I was so against the Hawks keeping Buff over say Patrick Sharp or Dave Bolland. Those two guys play their roles on the team to near-perfection and are also very committed to both the team and their careers.

Posted by mudbone1969 on 9/3/2011 10:28:00 AM (view original):
Kane has low character?  LOL!!

He's nothing but a hard-worker and an achiever.  He steps his game up in the playoffs and is nothing but a performer. 

And a guy who beat up and robbed a cab driver at 5am in the morning.

Andru .... Buff will be great for the jets, already has been.  Wait til they surround Buff, Bogosian, Kane, and Ladd with more talent. Players like Sharp and Bolland are much easier to find imo than big guys like Buff that can skate (and score 20 goals).  If I had to choose a player to go to the Flyers - I'd take Buff or Ladd over Sharp or Bolland.  

Bringing it back to the playoffs - size matters.  Ask Vancouver.  When it was not Buff beating them it was Boston.  Size is the reason Flyers beefed up this offseason on the wings after how badly they were pummeled in that Boston playoff series.  Its actually quite sickening that Boston snagged Dougie Hamilton in the draft.   He and Chara are a scary proposition.

Posted by andru2797 on 9/3/2011 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 9/2/2011 9:27:00 PM (view original):
I will say that this weight battle probably correlates a lot to his poor work ethic hawks fans continuously go on about ... thus his inconsistency on the ice. But as long like a guy like buff is not the cornerstone of the franchise he's a great player to have.

See moy, that's the point I've tried to make since day 1 of Buff leaving. He was a big reason we won it all in 2010. He's a fantastic player who played his role well when he was on his game. The problem is that for the Hawks to keep him, they would have had to pay him like and give him the role of a core player.

That's where I think letting him go was the right decision. He just simply doesn't have either the desire, drive or will to be a "professional" athlete, and in this day and age where the competition is so fierce, a team cannot afford to have a player who is not committed to staying in shape as part of their core.

In the old days, guys like Guy Lafleur showed up to camp 30 lbs overweight and smoked 3 packs a day and still dominated. Players simply cannot afford to that today. The NHL is a full time job. Look at any player(s) who show up to camp out of shape and the starts to their season and the impact of a good off-season work ethic is plain to see.

If a role-player, as Buff was for the Hawks in 2010, has a tough time being committed or is simply inconsistent, it doesn't hurt the team as much as if a top-line player goes through the same thing. Look at the Thrashers last season. Their record almost perfectly reflected Buff's performance because he was on the ice 25 minutes a night. They went as he went. Simply put, if Andrew Ladd didn't have such a strong overall season, that team finishes last.

That is why I was so against the Hawks keeping Buff over say Patrick Sharp or Dave Bolland. Those two guys play their roles on the team to near-perfection and are also very committed to both the team and their careers.

Well said, andru. I think the thing these guys forget when discussing Buff, is that in the salary capped NHL, you can't afford to throw dollars away on a guy who is not going to be consistent. The Blackhawks were in salary cap trouble already, they couldn't afford to pay Buff big money when you know he had the potential to not live up to his contract.

I'm not so sure buff would have been a 5+ mil player had the hawks re-signed him. He was only scoring 35 points a season as a forward for them (giroux signed mid-season around the same time at 3x $3.75 mil)... and anything less than 5 mil is a steal for an immovable guy that clears out lanes and has the potential to put up 53 points as a dman or a forward. I understand he is inconsistent .... but he is also 25 years old. Imagine what Buff can do if he becomes more consistent as he gets older. Duncan Keith didn't break out until age 27 as a comparison. Buff 'with the hawks' reminded me of a much bigger version of Scott Hartnell... and as much as I want hartnell's $4.2 mil off the books (inconsistent and penalty prone) he unfortunately is one of the only flyers that will get down right dirty banging away infront of the net, without him I think the flyers would be worse off since he opens up a lot more scoring chances for other players on the team.

Posted by jiml60 on 9/3/2011 11:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mudbone1969 on 9/3/2011 10:31:00 AM (view original):
Buff's work ethic has always been a concern and this off-season...his first as a truly wealthy player....hasn't gone as his waistline has hoped.  He needs to take his career seriously. 

It's nice to be ignoring randle's posts.  I bet he still thinks Buff is the only reason we won the Cup.  I'd like to get him and Jtard together in a contest and see who can out-tard the other.

Looks like you're gonna get your wish, muddy. Jtpoops and randle are teaming up for some top-notch idiocy in NFL General Discussion.

 Out tard each other haha?  you two are unreal ..really get out from Chicago's rose coloured glasses..firstly Everybody saw Cutler and his pouty face on the sidelines crying unwilling to help Hanie in the 2 nd half,he couldnt handle Mathews and the Packer D and decided to pack it in ,like the low character player he is..secondly Buff won Chicago the cup ..how do you guys account for the fact the Hawks went from 1st to barely making the playoffs after Buff and Ladd left?..i know the answer ..lack of character..just like the Bears ..lack of character at the QB  position

Posted by moy23 on 9/3/2011 4:29:00 PM (view original):
Andru .... Buff will be great for the jets, already has been.  Wait til they surround Buff, Bogosian, Kane, and Ladd with more talent. Players like Sharp and Bolland are much easier to find imo than big guys like Buff that can skate (and score 20 goals).  If I had to choose a player to go to the Flyers - I'd take Buff or Ladd over Sharp or Bolland.  

Bringing it back to the playoffs - size matters.  Ask Vancouver.  When it was not Buff beating them it was Boston.  Size is the reason Flyers beefed up this offseason on the wings after how badly they were pummeled in that Boston playoff series.  Its actually quite sickening that Boston snagged Dougie Hamilton in the draft.   He and Chara are a scary proposition.

I'd go with Ladd, Sharp, Bolland and Buff .

Muddy's posting? the wife must be at work?