Bill Russell? Topic

bluenote75
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I'd be interested in a league like ashamel suggested. How about a draft league, $47 Mil cap, everyone gets a Russell and gets to blacklist 2 players?
7/28/2011 11:47 PM
felonius
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Posted by badja on 7/28/2011 11:36:00 PM (view original):
The statement was did he deserve the majority of the credit for those 13 rings.  If you ask most anyone of that era, they would likely say yes.

1. People want to play next to, and coach, guys that can win.  Russell was that guy.

2. If all these HOFer's didn't play aongside Russell, do they get rings?  Do they get to the Hall?  Maybe, maybe not. 

I can only assume that felonius and ash agree that LBJ has had a better career than Kobe.  He has far better numbers than Kobe ever had and has had worse teammates, so ... end of discussion, right? 

success<> stats
maybe your analogy re Kobe v Lebron would work if a) the original argument was a player to player comparison (i.e. Russell v Wilt) but b) the difference between Kobe and Lebron's stats are nowhere near the difference between Russell and Wilt's stats

and

since neither pertains in this instance, not so much

now in re your 2 points

1) it was the 60s, 'guys want' had little and nothing to do with where they played - Red (not Russell) had everything to do with who played on that team
2) if they dont play next to Russell does he? maybe, maybe not
7/29/2011 8:37 AM (edited)
snydpie
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Posted by badja on 7/28/2011 11:36:00 PM (view original):
The statement was did he deserve the majority of the credit for those 13 rings.  If you ask most anyone of that era, they would likely say yes.

1. People want to play next to, and coach, guys that can win.  Russell was that guy.

2. If all these HOFer's didn't play aongside Russell, do they get rings?  Do they get to the Hall?  Maybe, maybe not. 

I can only assume that felonius and ash agree that LBJ has had a better career than Kobe.  He has far better numbers than Kobe ever had and has had worse teammates, so ... end of discussion, right? 

success<> stats
If I was building a real NBA team and had a choice between Kobe and LeBron both starting their rookie season's at the same time I would take Kobe but you can't go wrong with either one. During my lifespan Jordan and Bird are the only wing players that had more killer instinct and confidence than Kobe although Bird played alot of PF during his career.
7/29/2011 12:22 PM
felonius
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I'd add Magic to that list as well
7/29/2011 1:12 PM
ashamael
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not sure how I got dragged into LBJ vs Kobe... but it depends on what you're looking at.  I've seen a young Kobe, and I've seen a mature Kobe.  I have yet to see how Lebron's game grows as he matures.  He has the potential to be the most devastating player ever, but a lot of guys have had that potential and failed to meet it.  Thus far, he falls into that category despite how incredible he has been.
7/29/2011 4:29 PM
snydpie
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Posted by felonius on 7/29/2011 1:12:00 PM (view original):
I'd add Magic to that list as well

I don't consider Magic a wing player although he could play any position on the floor so yes I totally agree that he should be included also. I wasn't overlooking Magic I just consider him a PG since he is the best PG I've ever seen play the game!

How about this team:

PG. Magic
SG. Jordan
SF. Kobe
PF. Garnett
C. Dream

I would put this team up against any!

Jordan, Garnett, and Dream are as good as any players to ever play their positions defensively. 

7/29/2011 9:55 PM
colonels19
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Wow when the hell did this happen...I never remember Russ being in the 70s in DEF
7/29/2011 11:45 PM
badja
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Posted by snydpie on 7/29/2011 9:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by felonius on 7/29/2011 1:12:00 PM (view original):
I'd add Magic to that list as well

I don't consider Magic a wing player although he could play any position on the floor so yes I totally agree that he should be included also. I wasn't overlooking Magic I just consider him a PG since he is the best PG I've ever seen play the game!

How about this team:

PG. Magic
SG. Jordan
SF. Kobe
PF. Garnett
C. Dream

I would put this team up against any!

Jordan, Garnett, and Dream are as good as any players to ever play their positions defensively. 

I'd replace Garnett with Russell. 

Awesome either way.
7/30/2011 3:02 PM
steelers821
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i think  this team would be better
pg- magic
sg- jordan
sf-bird
pf-duncan
C-russel
duncan is also a great difender bird is better than kobe plus kobe doesnt play sf. the dream could be switched for duncan or russel. duncan>garnett though
7/30/2011 4:31 PM (edited)
logain
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If the team was playing in today's nba with no decent bigs.. I'd play

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Lebron at the 4
Shaq

All at their primes this would be pretty amazing
7/30/2011 5:10 PM
ashamael
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Magic
MJ
Bird
Russell
Wilt

I know Russell was a center... but if you don't think he could play PF in this (or any) line-up, I don't know what sport you watch!  For rotation, I'd have Hakeem for the bigs, Lebron (unfortunately) for the wing, The Glove at the point, and Ray Allen if (for some odd reason) I needed someone to come in and make threes. 
7/30/2011 8:55 PM
snydpie
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Posted by steelers821 on 7/30/2011 4:31:00 PM (view original):
i think  this team would be better
pg- magic
sg- jordan
sf-bird
pf-duncan
C-russel
duncan is also a great difender bird is better than kobe plus kobe doesnt play sf. the dream could be switched for duncan or russel. duncan>garnett though
Kobe or Jordan can play SF and defensively my team is better than all these teams. How is Bird going to match up with Kobe? Bird is actually better at PF where he can match up bettter since he was too slow to play most SF which is why McHale had to play the better SF's although I don't think he would do well vs. Garnett either..
7/30/2011 10:36 PM
snydpie
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Posted by logain on 7/30/2011 5:10:00 PM (view original):
If the team was playing in today's nba with no decent bigs.. I'd play

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Lebron at the 4
Shaq

All at their primes this would be pretty amazing
LeBron would play SF and Bird would play PF and Bird would struggle to contain Garnett or Duncan. That being said, If anyone could do it Bird could find a way. He was always able to find a way to dominate but Garnett could probably slow him down better than anyone else. This team is awesome that's for sure! All of these teams are. I think Dream was better than Shaq where he was an incredible defensive player. Dream and Garnett is an incredible defensive front court. Where is Kareem in this discussion?
7/30/2011 10:47 PM
malone9975
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Posted by snydpie on 7/30/2011 10:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by steelers821 on 7/30/2011 4:31:00 PM (view original):
i think  this team would be better
pg- magic
sg- jordan
sf-bird
pf-duncan
C-russel
duncan is also a great difender bird is better than kobe plus kobe doesnt play sf. the dream could be switched for duncan or russel. duncan>garnett though
Kobe or Jordan can play SF and defensively my team is better than all these teams. How is Bird going to match up with Kobe? Bird is actually better at PF where he can match up bettter since he was too slow to play most SF which is why McHale had to play the better SF's although I don't think he would do well vs. Garnett either..
Insane remarks about Bird.  While he wasn't fast everyone said he was quick and he never took plays off.  The Celtics were a great help defense team just like the Lakers of the same era.

My team would be:
PG-Magic
SG-Jordan
SF-Bird
PF-Rodman
C- Kareem

With a rotation of Payton, LeBron, and Dream.

I get D, rebounding, and guys that never quit (except for Kareem, but that is when Dream can come in)
7/30/2011 10:48 PM
snydpie
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Posted by ashamael on 7/30/2011 8:55:00 PM (view original):
Magic
MJ
Bird
Russell
Wilt

I know Russell was a center... but if you don't think he could play PF in this (or any) line-up, I don't know what sport you watch!  For rotation, I'd have Hakeem for the bigs, Lebron (unfortunately) for the wing, The Glove at the point, and Ray Allen if (for some odd reason) I needed someone to come in and make threes. 
There's no doubt Russell could play PF. About the only difference between PF and C is if a player is quick enough to defend the PF position. Olajuwon and Jabbar were way more polished offensively than Wilt and Shaq. I stand by my opinion that Dream was the greatest C ever!
7/30/2011 10:55 PM
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