Wilt and Shaq do not belong in the same sentence in terms of offensive polish and versatility - if you think Wilt had the same limited offensive arsenal as Shaq you are mistaken

yea..wilt had that awesome move were he finger rolled the ball into the basket from 2 feet away with his 6'9 defender on his back, helpless to defend it....shaq never quite mastered such an impressive move

seriously...what was wilt doing in the post that shaq couldnt?....neither guy could shoot at all from beyond 10 feet

I think  Wilt could at least shoot from within 10 ft, where Shaq had to be right under the basket. 

Shaq's numbers were amazing though in any era.  There's a reason no one else has put up stats like that, it ain't easy.  He did pretty damn well all things considered. 

Posted by dh555 on 7/31/2011 12:52:00 PM (view original):
yea..wilt had that awesome move were he finger rolled the ball into the basket from 2 feet away with his 6'9 defender on his back, helpless to defend it....shaq never quite mastered such an impressive move

seriously...what was wilt doing in the post that shaq couldnt?....neither guy could shoot at all from beyond 10 feet

um

[Carl Braun said] "He [Wilt] disorganizes you under the basket the same way [as Bill Russell, on defense].  With Wilt, of course, there's that offense on top of it, which is better than Russell's.  He hit on all those jumpers."
        "Yes, Wilt hit on those jumpers...Wilt did come into the league with a good touch from the outside, which made his early scoring that much more significant.  He wasn't just dunking the ball."

--Red Holzman.  A View from the Bench.  P.70

are there any other opinions ignorant of fact and based on no direct knowledge that you'd like to share with us? maybe the 6'9" bit which is contrary to the fact that the average height of bigs in the NBA in the mid-60s was no more than inch less than it was in 2000? what else would you like to prove you dont know today? 

Wilt was a pretty amazing athlete.  He might have been the most athletically gifted and physically freakish player to ever play the game (Lebron comes to mind as an argument - what, 40-50 years later?).  A big man that ran track?  The guy didn't just overpower others,  he was faster than them.  He was quicker than them.  He was just flat out better than them in every way.  He averaged 40-something points per game against the person generally referred to as the best defender in nba history.

he was faster than Al Attles in end to ends when they were both on the warriors and he held the big 8 (now it's called the big 12) record for high jump for awhile. He also played PG on the Globetrotters occasionally just for fun - the idea that he was just a freak athlete is problematic - he could go coast to coast, he lead the league in assists (almost twice)

and no, as a matter of fact his competition wasnt a bunch of scrawny undersized white dudes (well maybe in 60 and 61 or so it was give or take Bill Russell) but during the meat of his career in a 8-10 team league he was facing Russell, Thurmond, Reed, Bellamy, and Unseld - 8 to 10 teams think about it - that's night in, night out Russell 8 times, Thurmond 8 times, Reed & Bellamy (together in some of those seasons!) 8 times - no nights off, none of this 3 nights of Joel Anthony, 2 nights of Robin Lopez nonsense

in a day and age when Kwame Brown is starting 50 games on an NBA squad people really shouldnt be running their mouths (or fingers) about level of competition (and if you want look at the golden age of Ostertag, Polyniece, Oliver Miller, Lorenzen Wright, Muresahn,  and Longley we can go there too - ps go ahead and pick a mid 90s season and check out how many teams didnt even bother to start a center  http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/ ) - the level of competition argument is a friggin joke

Amen.  People don't want to hear that, though.

The freak athlete thing was also attributed to Olajuwon, and part of the reason I love him.  He could beat guards down the court and had the perimeter game to go with the inside game.  Dream in many ways was the evolutionary Wilt.  Speed, D, a midrange game, an inside game, and could make the extra pass.

The one thing I have always hated about Wilt was how he was as a teammate on the floor.  Russell was and is an ascerbic human being, but on the court he was a pro.  Wilt was always more concerned with himself and his numbers.  Russell is always given credit for his D and rebounding, and I still give him D, but todays rebounding gods get about 12 rpg.  Mostly because perimeter players couldn't shoot over 40% with any real regularity.  If you take 10% more missed shots consider the additional rebounds available to the current board lords.  KLove at 30% Rebs would have gone from 15 rpg to 19.5 rpg.

It'd be more than that... the pace of the game was much, much faster back then.  So it's not 10% more missed shots, it's going to be like 10% more shots period, and in that 10% an additional 10% missed... leading to way more opportunities.

Posted by felonius on 7/31/2011 5:28:00 PM (view original):
he was faster than Al Attles in end to ends when they were both on the warriors and he held the big 8 (now it's called the big 12) record for high jump for awhile. He also played PG on the Globetrotters occasionally just for fun - the idea that he was just a freak athlete is problematic - he could go coast to coast, he lead the league in assists (almost twice)

and no, as a matter of fact his competition wasnt a bunch of scrawny undersized white dudes (well maybe in 60 and 61 or so it was give or take Bill Russell) but during the meat of his career in a 8-10 team league he was facing Russell, Thurmond, Reed, Bellamy, and Unseld - 8 to 10 teams think about it - that's night in, night out Russell 8 times, Thurmond 8 times, Reed & Bellamy (together in some of those seasons!) 8 times - no nights off, none of this 3 nights of Joel Anthony, 2 nights of Robin Lopez nonsense

in a day and age when Kwame Brown is starting 50 games on an NBA squad people really shouldnt be running their mouths (or fingers) about level of competition (and if you want look at the golden age of Ostertag, Polyniece, Oliver Miller, Lorenzen Wright, Muresahn,  and Longley we can go there too - ps go ahead and pick a mid 90s season and check out how many teams didnt even bother to start a center  http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/ ) - the level of competition argument is a friggin joke

Very good points which is why I would like to see only 20 teams in the NBA. There aren't any great C's in the NBA now. I don't enjoy watching regular season NBA basketball anymore cuz I don't like watching Kobe torch backups forced to start cuz the league is too big. I really miss the days of Dream, Jabbar, Moses, Robinson, Ewing, Parish, and Daugherty who unfortunately had his career cut short.

Posted by malone9975 on 7/31/2011 6:58:00 PM (view original):
The freak athlete thing was also attributed to Olajuwon, and part of the reason I love him.  He could beat guards down the court and had the perimeter game to go with the inside game.  Dream in many ways was the evolutionary Wilt.  Speed, D, a midrange game, an inside game, and could make the extra pass.

The one thing I have always hated about Wilt was how he was as a teammate on the floor.  Russell was and is an ascerbic human being, but on the court he was a pro.  Wilt was always more concerned with himself and his numbers.  Russell is always given credit for his D and rebounding, and I still give him D, but todays rebounding gods get about 12 rpg.  Mostly because perimeter players couldn't shoot over 40% with any real regularity.  If you take 10% more missed shots consider the additional rebounds available to the current board lords.  KLove at 30% Rebs would have gone from 15 rpg to 19.5 rpg.

bosox bill is biased and else what's your source here on this team mate thing because I can post like 3 or 4 peer rebuttals to what you're saying about being a team player and so forth

dude lead the league in assists (almost twice)

I guess Jon Stockton was selfish too right?

while im sure red knows a whole lot more then myself...i know what i saw from the games tapes ive been able to see...wilt had no offensive game outside the paint and if he unleashed that crappy jumper it was an absolute win for the opponent

i know wilt was a beast...not trying to discredit the guy here..i just felt the need to defend shaq after you made it sound like he couldnt hang with wilt when it came to scoring in the post....i feel like shaq is right there with him along with kareem as the best paint scorers of all time

Posted by felonius on 7/31/2011 11:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by malone9975 on 7/31/2011 6:58:00 PM (view original):
The freak athlete thing was also attributed to Olajuwon, and part of the reason I love him.  He could beat guards down the court and had the perimeter game to go with the inside game.  Dream in many ways was the evolutionary Wilt.  Speed, D, a midrange game, an inside game, and could make the extra pass.

The one thing I have always hated about Wilt was how he was as a teammate on the floor.  Russell was and is an ascerbic human being, but on the court he was a pro.  Wilt was always more concerned with himself and his numbers.  Russell is always given credit for his D and rebounding, and I still give him D, but todays rebounding gods get about 12 rpg.  Mostly because perimeter players couldn't shoot over 40% with any real regularity.  If you take 10% more missed shots consider the additional rebounds available to the current board lords.  KLove at 30% Rebs would have gone from 15 rpg to 19.5 rpg.

bosox bill is biased and else what's your source here on this team mate thing because I can post like 3 or 4 peer rebuttals to what you're saying about being a team player and so forth

dude lead the league in assists (almost twice)

I guess Jon Stockton was selfish too right?

Who is"Jon" Stockton?  Just being an ***.

Seriously though I have read this other than TBOB that have discussed his selfish nature.  I know this is an odd source, but my mother used to always talk about it as well (Mom was a hardcore hoops fan...she is the one that pushed for our Rockets season tix and she had tickets to almost every Colonels game until I was born).  It was a well-known thing back then.  Players back then didn't get traded if they were great teammates and salt of the earth guys in the locker room while still in their virtual prime, and being the most dominating force in the league.

Posted by dh555 on 8/1/2011 12:35:00 AM (view original):
while im sure red knows a whole lot more then myself...i know what i saw from the games tapes ive been able to see...wilt had no offensive game outside the paint and if he unleashed that crappy jumper it was an absolute win for the opponent

i know wilt was a beast...not trying to discredit the guy here..i just felt the need to defend shaq after you made it sound like he couldnt hang with wilt when it came to scoring in the post....i feel like shaq is right there with him along with kareem as the best paint scorers of all time

What Wilt did you see?  The Sixers or Lakers Wilt that played primarily in the paint and let others score instead of taking shots everywhere?

yeah you have to remember most of the footage you see of wilt came late in his career when he had slowed down a bit and had changed his game into more of a defensive facilitator role