Posted by all3 on 8/12/2011 1:53:00 AM (view original):
In this "League", you're going to need a "true" Center to man-up against the best that ever played the game, and you're going to need that guy every single game.  This guy fills both those criteria, while also putting-up (at least) 23 - 12 - 3 and 2.5 blocks, and also shoots 60%.  Don't think he really gets the credit he deserves since his best days were in the ABA, so I'm sure some people won't like the pick, but 
                                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                       ARTIS GILMORE

has to be the pick here.  Can't see any other "competitive" Centers being available in 30 picks when I'm up again.

Great pick, he was awesome. Monster of a man although I would've probably taken 2 other C's before him but they are all pretty equal.

Stockton is the career leader in Assists by over 4000; the career leader in steals by over 600; in the top 35 in all time scoring and during his 19 year career made the playoffs in all 19 seasons.

Posted by xxevilivexx on 8/12/2011 2:08:00 AM (view original):
Stockton is the career leader in Assists by over 4000; the career leader in steals by over 600; in the top 35 in all time scoring and during his 19 year career made the playoffs in all 19 seasons.

Let's see what you do with the rest of your team, he was a great player. There are 3 guys I can't believe are still available.

Posted by xxevilivexx on 8/12/2011 2:08:00 AM (view original):
Stockton is the career leader in Assists by over 4000; the career leader in steals by over 600; in the top 35 in all time scoring and during his 19 year career made the playoffs in all 19 seasons.

He also played in all 82 games 16 of those 19 seasons.

That's some durability right there!

He was also a gritty defender, often doing little things to get under opponents' skin - and slow 'em down at the same time.  Don't get me wrong - he's no Gary Payton on defense, but he was an excellent team defender.

Not sure where the shooting argument came from... but we're talking about a barely-6-footer whose career fg% was 51.5%.  That's better than many 7-footers (*cough* Tim Duncan *cough*).  And that's also nerfed from the number of threes he took... in actuality we're talking about a 54.6% efg%.

So who was it that couldn't shoot again?


ps - **** John Stockton... I hated that miserable little ****.

I think Malone made Stockton more than Stockton made Malone. Stockton definately got alot of wide open shots/layups thanks to Malone but when challenged around the rim he missed alot of layups. He was as smart as they get which is why his shooting % is so high only shooting high % shots which is a tribute to him considering he was a PG but top 12? 19 seasons of greatness makes him better than what he is & that's just reality but you have a guy who will make your players better but won't win the big game. This is just for fun so it's all good! 

I don't know about the whole 'winning the big game' thing... I threw darts at a Stockton basketball card for months for his series-winning jumper over the Rockets that sent them to the Finals.  Top 12 is debatable, but I honestly can't think of any point guard that wasn't already drafted that I would take above him.  Pure point guard, anyway.  I can think of a combo guard that should have already been taken that I'd take above him, though.

The only true PG that I'd even say it was close with would be Payton... but the Glove hurt his teams with erratic shooting more than Stockton helped his with his masterful ability to read the defense and get the ball to the right guy... and, not to mention, be able to nail a jumpshot.  Payton's EFG% was only 49.6% for his career.  Stockton's regular fg% was 1.9% higher than Payton's efg%.  His efg% was 5% higher than Payton's.  And Payton took many more shots, often ill advised.  I'll take Stockton's offense over Glove's any day... enough so that I'll even ignore the fact that Glove was one of the best defenders at the PG position to ever play.

Counter to Malone making Stockton:  Malone wouldn't have gotten all those easy, wide-open lay-ups if it wasn't for Stockton and his ability to both shoot & pass.  Remember, when teams have to defend both parts of the pick 'n roll, it makes both parts even more effective.

Posted by snydpie on 8/12/2011 12:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by xxevilivexx on 8/11/2011 6:12:00 PM (view original):
This might get some flack, but I'd build around a model of consistency and take John Stockton

Im sorry but Stockton doesn't belong in the 1st round! It's all good though, we all make mistakes lol. His biggest weakness was finishing around the rim and inconsistent shooting. Great player/career but not top 12 material whatsoever!

inconsistent shooting? Career #s for Stockton:

.515 FG%
.384 3PT%
.826 FT%
.546 EFG%
.602 TS%

Maybe not top 12 but that isn't because of his shooting.
*edit: I just saw ash has already addressed this.

The whole Kareem vs Hakeem argument is a really good one: If you're talking career, you take Kareem, hands down, imo. 5 MVP awards in his first 8 seasons is ridiculous.
Single season? maybe Dream with his MVP, Finals MVP, and DPOY season but all those great Kareem seasons would put that one to the test. 30, 16, and 5 is nothing to scoff at.

I've got a list of 10 players I'll have trouble choosing between, so I'm really hoping most of them are gone by the time my next pick comes up to make my job easier.

Yeah Stockton had better shooting than Duncan and the most gushed about player here, Dream.   He was a great player to be sure. 
But.... point guards don't win championships.

Well, not alone, but Magic and a yet-to-be-picked PG were clearly the best players on multiple title-winning teams.

31-6-7      .500   7fts
26-16-9    .625 9 fts

34-11-2   .467  9fts
33-12-7   .545  14 fts

31-14-7  .467   5fts
28-10-6  .647  11fts

35-15-6   .500  1ft
25-12-3   .579  8fts


So, which one got "dominated" again?    Shaq had garbage teammates.

Posted by ashamael on 8/12/2011 3:11:00 AM (view original):
I don't know about the whole 'winning the big game' thing... I threw darts at a Stockton basketball card for months for his series-winning jumper over the Rockets that sent them to the Finals.  Top 12 is debatable, but I honestly can't think of any point guard that wasn't already drafted that I would take above him.  Pure point guard, anyway.  I can think of a combo guard that should have already been taken that I'd take above him, though.

The only true PG that I'd even say it was close with would be Payton... but the Glove hurt his teams with erratic shooting more than Stockton helped his with his masterful ability to read the defense and get the ball to the right guy... and, not to mention, be able to nail a jumpshot.  Payton's EFG% was only 49.6% for his career.  Stockton's regular fg% was 1.9% higher than Payton's efg%.  His efg% was 5% higher than Payton's.  And Payton took many more shots, often ill advised.  I'll take Stockton's offense over Glove's any day... enough so that I'll even ignore the fact that Glove was one of the best defenders at the PG position to ever play.

Counter to Malone making Stockton:  Malone wouldn't have gotten all those easy, wide-open lay-ups if it wasn't for Stockton and his ability to both shoot & pass.  Remember, when teams have to defend both parts of the pick 'n roll, it makes both parts even more effective.

Defense is just as important as offense since everyone will probably have at least 4 great offensive players. One bad defensive player in your lineup could very easily be exposed. With that said I would take Payton over Stockton even though Stockton was an excellent defensive player Payton was the best defensive PG ever and his defensive versatility would be huge. Payton was a great player and also had a great career. There are 2 other PG's I would throw in with these 2 who are just as good if not better.

Posted by badja on 8/12/2011 9:12:00 AM (view original):






31-6-7      .500   7fts
26-16-9    .625 9 fts

34-11-2   .467  9fts
33-12-7   .545  14 fts

31-14-7  .467   5fts
28-10-6  .647  11fts

35-15-6   .500  1ft
25-12-3   .579  8fts


So, which one got "dominated" again?    Shaq had garbage teammates.

Who are you matching up?

Posted by longtallbrad on 8/12/2011 6:30:00 AM (view original):
I've got a list of 10 players I'll have trouble choosing between, so I'm really hoping most of them are gone by the time my next pick comes up to make my job easier.

This.. except most of them won't be gone for me...