Posted by all3 on 8/12/2011 10:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by logain on 8/12/2011 9:59:00 AM (view original):
Hakeem's 10 less to's and 7 extra steal's seem like the big difference in the box score. Shaq got to the line more but only made 6 more fts.

Comparing these two is very interesting to me, but comparing either to Kareem or Wilt is just plain silly.  Sure Hakeem had one truly amazing season, but Kareem and Wilt each had many of those seasons, and sure Shaq was an incredibly efficient and dominant offensive player, but so were Kareem and Wilt, and they played defense and didn't miss half the season many times.

Posted by badja on 8/12/2011 11:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by longtallbrad on 8/12/2011 9:10:00 AM (view original):
Well, not alone, but Magic and a yet-to-be-picked PG were clearly the best players on multiple title-winning teams.

Well, there are pg's and then there is Magic Johnson...

I'll admit I can't think of who the other one is.

Moses and Doc were my next two picks, but I didn't expect either one to fall to me.

Posted by snydpie on 8/12/2011 9:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 8/12/2011 3:11:00 AM (view original):
I don't know about the whole 'winning the big game' thing... I threw darts at a Stockton basketball card for months for his series-winning jumper over the Rockets that sent them to the Finals.  Top 12 is debatable, but I honestly can't think of any point guard that wasn't already drafted that I would take above him.  Pure point guard, anyway.  I can think of a combo guard that should have already been taken that I'd take above him, though.

The only true PG that I'd even say it was close with would be Payton... but the Glove hurt his teams with erratic shooting more than Stockton helped his with his masterful ability to read the defense and get the ball to the right guy... and, not to mention, be able to nail a jumpshot.  Payton's EFG% was only 49.6% for his career.  Stockton's regular fg% was 1.9% higher than Payton's efg%.  His efg% was 5% higher than Payton's.  And Payton took many more shots, often ill advised.  I'll take Stockton's offense over Glove's any day... enough so that I'll even ignore the fact that Glove was one of the best defenders at the PG position to ever play.

Counter to Malone making Stockton:  Malone wouldn't have gotten all those easy, wide-open lay-ups if it wasn't for Stockton and his ability to both shoot & pass.  Remember, when teams have to defend both parts of the pick 'n roll, it makes both parts even more effective.

Defense is just as important as offense since everyone will probably have at least 4 great offensive players. One bad defensive player in your lineup could very easily be exposed. With that said I would take Payton over Stockton even though Stockton was an excellent defensive player Payton was the best defensive PG ever and his defensive versatility would be huge. Payton was a great player and also had a great career. There are 2 other PG's I would throw in with these 2 who are just as good if not better.

Posted by ashamael on 8/12/2011 3:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/12/2011 9:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 8/12/2011 3:11:00 AM (view original):
I don't know about the whole 'winning the big game' thing... I threw darts at a Stockton basketball card for months for his series-winning jumper over the Rockets that sent them to the Finals.  Top 12 is debatable, but I honestly can't think of any point guard that wasn't already drafted that I would take above him.  Pure point guard, anyway.  I can think of a combo guard that should have already been taken that I'd take above him, though.

The only true PG that I'd even say it was close with would be Payton... but the Glove hurt his teams with erratic shooting more than Stockton helped his with his masterful ability to read the defense and get the ball to the right guy... and, not to mention, be able to nail a jumpshot.  Payton's EFG% was only 49.6% for his career.  Stockton's regular fg% was 1.9% higher than Payton's efg%.  His efg% was 5% higher than Payton's.  And Payton took many more shots, often ill advised.  I'll take Stockton's offense over Glove's any day... enough so that I'll even ignore the fact that Glove was one of the best defenders at the PG position to ever play.

Counter to Malone making Stockton:  Malone wouldn't have gotten all those easy, wide-open lay-ups if it wasn't for Stockton and his ability to both shoot & pass.  Remember, when teams have to defend both parts of the pick 'n roll, it makes both parts even more effective.

Defense is just as important as offense since everyone will probably have at least 4 great offensive players. One bad defensive player in your lineup could very easily be exposed. With that said I would take Payton over Stockton even though Stockton was an excellent defensive player Payton was the best defensive PG ever and his defensive versatility would be huge. Payton was a great player and also had a great career. There are 2 other PG's I would throw in with these 2 who are just as good if not better.

Yeah, but poor shot selection hurts a team, too.  And this was the knock on Payton.  Take a look at what happened when you put him with three other great scorers.  Did he become a pure point guard?  No.  He wanted his share of the offensive glory.  You think it'd be any different with guys other than Shaq, Mailman & Kobe?

And, as you say, you'll probably have at least 4 great offensive players... so why not draft somebody that'll get them the ball instead of taking ****** shots?

Just my feelings.

Posted by logain on 8/12/2011 3:20:00 PM (view original):
just because this isn't actually a league.. doesn't mean you can't send proxies out. I've been sitting at my computer lesson planning all week.. could have made proxy picks for people. That is mostly the case next week too. (weekend not so much)