Yeah, sitemailing the picks to logain is fine with me. I thought we were going to seed them 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, which wouldn't pursway peoples opinions on each team. It would also save time considering how long the draft has taken. I don't think the sitemail idea is really necessary. I say we just get this thing going as quick as possible so we can crown a champion ASAP!

I'm sure everyone will run these teams thru the Dream Team machine although we only have 8 players. The suggestion was to draft 10 which was my original post so we could add 2 more rounds. That would help us get a better result through the machine as we could then just add 2 scrubs at the end of the bench.

OK accepting sitemail through Saturday night. Can post results and bracket Sunday.

Posted by malone9975 on 8/22/2011 9:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by longtallbrad on 8/22/2011 8:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by eleibowitz on 8/22/2011 5:23:00 PM (view original):
Ive been following this thread and love the arguments!!  Keep it up!  Snydie you are putting Worthy at PF?  I think that's his natural postion, playing out of position all those years in LA!  Ewing one of the best defesive centers ever??  Absolutely!  Amazing foot speed!

I assume you're being sarcastic, but Worthy did play PF at times and is considered a combo forward by many analysts and hoops historians.  I wouldn't say PF is his natural or best position, especially on defense, but it's not crazy to give him minutes there. 

Ewing is getting bashed in this thread because of some - perhaps - overly enthusiastic claims.  But he certainly was one of the best defensive centers of his era, and in any case was no slouch on the defensive end.  If he were in his prime today or anytime in the past 10-12 years it would be easy to say he's second best center in the league at worst.  Just kind of his weird misfortune to play during the golden era of real centers.  As a defender, he was a step behind Robinson and two steps behind Olajuwon.  No one seems to remember that he was thought of as a great defender coming out of college.  His career just evolved differently than expected.

I remember Ewing perfectly.  I am also well schooled in the Ewing Theory.  I said from the beginning that he was a very good defender, but behind some of his contemporaries....namely Dream, Admiral, Eaton, Zo, and Mutombo.  All of whom were defensive players of the year and were total stoppers.  Ewing had a better supporting cast that allowed him to be great.  Would he have been half the defensive power without knowing he had enforcers around him like Mason and Oakley.

My biggest issue here is that Ewing is the exact wrong player for this team.  snydpie contends, incorrectly so, that since he drafted Ewing as a PF (or Olajuwon..not sure which really) then he can reprogram those players to play how he wants them to.  Ewing could play inside, but he was a midrange player.  Same with Olajuwon for that matter.  Offensively you just can't say this is what I want this player to be because I drafted him.  It would be like turning Wilt into a slasher or Mo Cheeks into a pure 3pt shooter.

To further expound on this point snydpie wants us to swallow that Grant Hill and James Worthy are deep threats and no one could keep up with Pistol Pete.  Look I will never say Maravich sucked, because he didn't, but is he really better than a guy like Bob Cousy?  No.  Maravich was a the only gun on his team and he had to score.  He did so very well, but his teams never did ANYTHING.  Not unlike a pre-Pippen Jordan.

What I want here is a trip to the real world.  Ewing is great, but not for this team.  Worthy was good, but not when you need another deep threat he may not be the guy you need.  Then putting him at PF for even a couple of minutes is a terrible idea with the all-star teams people are building here. 

I never said Worthy and Hill were deep threats although Kidd, Worthy and Hill improved as shooters as their careers advanced. Worthy was never much of a 3 pt threat and I never claimed he was. You guys are way over valuing 3 pt shooting. The season before Hill blew out his ankle he was an excellent 3 pt shooter and Kidd was always adequate from the arc. You can always add spot up shooters but you can't always add great scorers or defensive players to a team. Other than Kidd who is a better than avg offensive player my team is filled with scorers who can knock down shots. I will have 2 great 3 pt shooters after my 8th pick and that is plenty with this team. I would rather have Worthy and Hill than a spot up shooter but I will add this need to my team with my last pick. You can win with 4 great scorers and one 3 pt shooter on the floor with this team.

I do still have one pick left malone to add that 2nd 3 pt threat!
 
Players winning championships has to be considered but they also won because of their supporting cast. Every team in this league has a great supporting cast.

Posted by logain on 8/22/2011 11:08:00 PM (view original):
OK accepting sitemail through Saturday night. Can post results and bracket Sunday.

Gotta finish the draft first, though.

OK, in addition to putting-up 15 points and 12 boards night after night and year after year, this player brings all the intangibles that helped his IRL team to a couple Championships.  There are big men left who score more, and who play better Defense, but when it comes to having a truly "Offensive" game, this guy is easily Top 10 All-Time.  He's a threat to get the opponent's best player thrown from the game every time he takes the floor.

                                                                                                                   BILL LAIMBEER

Weighing-in on the "Prime" vs. "Longevity" issue: I for one didn't even consider anybody who didn't have at least 5 full seasons where they performed at a top level.  Just don't see how you can say a player is one of the best players ever if he doesn't meet that criteria.  Tons of guys have had a couple great seasons, but part of being a great player is doing it year after year.  No matter if a player's failure to do so was injury, or the fact he's still to young, I believe that player's effectiveness needs to be severly limited in any such All-Time format.   

Steelers takes"Thunder" Dan Majerle

So here's what I understand:

We'll end up crowning two champions, potentially -

A) The team that's built the best for a 5-10 year run of dominance.  Basically, the best dynasty.
B) The team with the highest peak...the best shot at winning it all in a one-year flash of brilliance.

With the "A" process, votes ranking teams (other than our own) 1-15 need to be sitemailed to logain by end of Saturday, and then he'll post the results - and the resulting bracket for the tournament.  I do think it makes sense for each GM to post a "what I was thinking" explanation of his team prior to the voting...how he believes the players mesh and complement each other, something about the strengths and general coaching strategy.  Consideration in voting needs to be given both to longevity of the key players, but also when their peaks are.  For example, if your two best players each had only five years as superstuds, and those two five-year periods only overlapped by a little, then your team has a narrower window of potential dominance.

Going into the tournament, GMs should specify which single season of each player they're using.  For each round of the single-elimination tournament, GMs should post a rotation and gameplan for their team.  That way we can assess things like whether a team is trying run a constant fast break without a good outlet rebounder and a point guard with decent footspeed and court vision, against an opponent that presses well.

seriously considering 3 guys here.

In the end I think this guy gives me lots of flexibility to play interesting lineups.. and can play solid backup minutes for LBJ and Pierce..

Eddie Jones

Long career
3x all-star
3x all-defensive team
12th all time in 3ps made
career 37% from 3, 80% FT, 50.5% efg
24th all-time in steals - nba steals leader in 99-00

Posted by imahobbit on 8/23/2011 9:27:00 AM (view original):
seriously considering 3 guys here.

In the end I think this guy gives me lots of flexibility to play interesting lineups.. and can play solid backup minutes for LBJ and Pierce..

Eddie Jones

Long career
3x all-star
3x all-defensive team
12th all time in 3ps made
career 37% from 3, 80% FT, 50.5% efg
24th all-time in steals - nba steals leader in 99-00

nice

I have a ? and want to hear what you guys have to say: 

If I wanted to change out one of my picks would it be best if I did it now so that the player I drop is available, or wait til the draft is over, or are our picks set in stone?  

I would say we can't change picks.

As for brad's post above, I don't understand the primes lining up thing. Its not like we are taking everyone as rookies to start. If two players have a 5 year prime.. imagine they played it together? Right?

The way I am going to judge these teams is.. 

A. Can this team with everyone at their prime compete for/win a championship in this "league" - I think about 8 of them can. I'll rank those 8 above the other 8 and then base the rankings from there on..

B. How many seasons can the team compete for a championship.

C. Feel.

So, for example, emps team can compete for a title for at least 5-6 seasons and is one of the favorites for my #1 spot. But I have to look at other teams closer.

Posted by logain on 8/23/2011 9:49:00 AM (view original):
As for brad's post above, I don't understand the primes lining up thing. Its not like we are taking everyone as rookies to start. If two players have a 5 year prime.. imagine they played it together? Right?

The way I am going to judge these teams is.. 

A. Can this team with everyone at their prime compete for/win a championship in this "league" - I think about 8 of them can. I'll rank those 8 above the other 8 and then base the rankings from there on..

B. How many seasons can the team compete for a championship.

C. Feel.

So, for example, emps team can compete for a title for at least 5-6 seasons and is one of the favorites for my #1 spot. But I have to look at other teams closer.

I think that is best logain, lets not make it more complicated than it needs to be. It's just good fun in the end anyways.

the teams are all really good. Throwing darts is probably an acceptable method of ranking as well