Why Simleague doesn't make sense Topic

Posted by 2U23L on 3/1/2016 10:08:00 PM (view original):
Or perhaps Whatif doesn't really know how to compute range.
It's definitely flawed. Guys like Raines shouldn't have poor range but speed is just a made up number. What determines his speed out of 100 that year? What else could be used to determine range? How would you come up with the range for say 1894 Hugh Duffy?
3/2/2016 3:07 AM
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Okay, there is no way to measure how far players CAN or COULD run (when they played) across left or center field.

BUT WE DO KNOW how many balls they got to and caught. We can measure that and make it a stat,

It is called "range factor" - it was developed by Bill James. Here is how it is calculated, which is not something invented by WIS or SIM baseball:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_factor

So we are now rating a player's fielding range, rightly or wrongly, on what they actually DID in real life, not how good they looked running one time (see the discussion between Brad Pitt as Billy Beane and his scouts early in the movie "Moneyball" for why the "eye candy" test is not a good way to evaluate players).

The letter grades given for range - as several people explained in another thread - is the measure of how good a player's range factor (or fielding percentage for the fielding grade) was COMPARED TO OTHER PLAYERS IN THE SAME POSITION IN THE SAME YEAR.

So go to the Draft Center, click on OF to search for an outfielder. Now, click on one of the areas for searching a player and go down to "range" and then put in the numbers 8 and 12 - to get only players with B range or higher - better than Bo Jackson in 1989. Put "1989" in the year, so we get only those players.

You will see that 43 players come up - Barry Bond, Kirby Puckett, Lenny Dykstra - actually Dykstra comes up as four different iterations, so we really have 40 players.

So 40 players had more putouts and assists per inning played in the outfield than Bo Jackson did in 1989, IN REAL LIFE. THAT is why he is a C range for that year.

d_rocks97:

In 1894, Hugh Duffy played 1060 innings in the outfield. He had 315 putouts and 27 assists. He made 27 errors for a fielding percentage of .927. His range factor per 9 innings played in the field was 2.90. These stats come from:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/duffyhu01.shtml

WIS lists Hugh Duffy 1894 as C- field, and A range.

Now when we search for 1894 OFs with range factor of A or A+ - meaning we click on "range" as a search variable and put in 11 and 12 as the parameters, we get 7 players with A range.

Let's pick one to compare him with Duffy. Billy Hamilton: In 1894 Billy Hamilton played 1149 innings in the outfield.He had 370 putouts and 15 assists. He made 15 errors. His fielding percentage was .963. His range factor per 9 innings played in the outfield was slightly better than Duffy's: 3.02 - range factor being putouts plus assists calculated here for per 9 innings played, so 3 a game as opposed to 2.90 for Duffy, which is pretty darn close, leading to them having the same range factor for that year. But Hamilton is listed as a "B" in fielding, as opposed to "C" for Duffy, because his fielding percentage as 36 points higher - indeed he made 12 fewer errors.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hamilbi01.shtml

There is no magic here. It is all based on real life stats of what the players did in the year in question, and the grades are comparative with others from that same year, and so corrects for different playing conditions over time - as in the use of better gloves today has led in a linear direction toward higher fielding percentage for over a century. So a "B" in 2015 is compared to poorer fielders, and better ones, in 2015, not to how well someone fielded when gloves were primitive.

Let's look at a poor fielder from 1894 now:

If I look for a "D" range - I put 2 and 3 - D and D+ - as my parameters for 1894 outfielders - I get 11 players.The worst who played nearly full time was Tuck Turner. He played 620 innings, had 140 putouts and 7 assists, and made 16 errors. His putouts+assists per 9 innings (range factor) in the field was 2.13, compared to 2.90 for Duffy and 3.02 for Hamilton. Almost a whole out difference per game, or 150 outs per seasons. A lot. His fielding percentage of .902 was poor even for those days. His 16 errors in a little over half the number of innings that Duffy played making 27 makes Duffy look pretty good by comparison.

This is why Hamilton is a B field, Duffy a C, and Tucker a D. And the range factors are also significantly different for that year for those three players - Duffy and Hamilton about even, a slight edge to Hamilton, with Tucker's being very poor. So he is also a D field.

THAT is how this is calculated and I do not see how there is any fairer way to do it than to use what ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN REAL LIFE. Unless you want to rely on video (which is not a one-to-one perfect reproduction of what happens, but a video representation of it, with the digital or film vision having its own speed which can affect how fast someone seems to be going when we look at it by the way - see the Magritte painting "This is not a pipe", or read Walter Benjamin's "The Work of Art in an Age of Mechanical Reproduction for an introduction to these issues.).

So that is how the fielding grades are determined. If you look up any players from a more recent year - 1989 or 2015 or whatever, compare their fielding percentages and their putouts and assists per inning it will be clear why one player is a B or C instead of a D, and why their range is A, B, C or D compared with others from that same year. Period.
3/2/2016 8:12 AM
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Thanks, italyprof. Excellent explanation.
3/2/2016 9:01 AM
My dog, spot,doesn't get to every ball I throw him although he is a fast runner. I built a make believe cyber dog and assigned him an even greater speed rating...he gets to everything I throw him...so I am going with the make believe dog. Sorry spot.
3/2/2016 9:44 AM
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Prof, perhaps you didn't get my meaning. In our game, our players are real player seasons. In HBD they are made up kinda like my "cyber dog" is.
3/2/2016 12:20 PM
I understand how they calculate range but it was just a question to that one guy about how we he determine range differently
3/2/2016 12:32 PM
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Professor, nice explanation you do it extremely well no matter what you talk about, pitching, hitting, fatigue that is why you are the Professor to teach some of us the proper lingo.
3/2/2016 1:51 PM
Perhaps "range" is a misnomer. I can understand someone inferring that it relates to covering a lot of ground, hence that speed is involved. Any suggestions for a better term that more accurately describes the skills/abilities that italyprof described so articulately?
3/2/2016 2:44 PM
Posted by 2U23L on 3/2/2016 7:37:00 AM (view original):
Posted by d_rock97 on 3/2/2016 3:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by 2U23L on 3/1/2016 10:08:00 PM (view original):
Or perhaps Whatif doesn't really know how to compute range.
It's definitely flawed. Guys like Raines shouldn't have poor range but speed is just a made up number. What determines his speed out of 100 that year? What else could be used to determine range? How would you come up with the range for say 1894 Hugh Duffy?
I think Whatif uses a percentage to evaluate range. For instance, If a player hits a line drive over the third basemen's head that rolls to the wall for a double, for the poor sap playing left field it is counted as a fly ball to left field that he couldn't make the play on, which would adversely affect his range in WiS. I wonder about Home runs. Do they count against a fielders range ? How about games played at Fenway? That must bring a Fielders range down.
You do realize that the MLB uses a Range Factor number, right? Not just Whatifsports... There's a number that is calculated with assists and putouts. It's a little misleading, but it's used.

I agree, that Range ratings in this are complete garbage in this Sim, but guys like Lou Brock don't deserve a good range rating just because of their speed... He was quite terrible in the field, and often didn't get to balls because he had no idea how to read the field.
3/3/2016 8:53 AM
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Why Simleague doesn't make sense Topic

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