to take on a historically great team?

I was thinking about a theme league where 1/2 the league would be historical, RL teams and the other have would be OL style teams.  I think a decent OL team would be just about any historical  team.

Do you think a 70 million team would be good enough to take on:

1927 Yankees?
2001 Mariners?
etc.

Yes

I would say yes.  Historical teams have wastage and misplaced PA's and IP that is simply inherent to the trials and tribulations of a real baseball season.  In the long run, handpicking your strategy and usage would be an advantage.  In your 2010 league even with a 30+ man roster I am short PA's at some positions because the league is offense heavy and real life PA's are simply not enough to handle the difference in the way the Sim is running.

You would need to have 6/2 AAA with average quality for the historical teams ONLY.  Dont allow AAA for GM picked teams, or else you essentially made it like a 80mil team.

The pitching for any historical team would break down in front of a decent to good  $80 Mil OL team, IMO, regardless of the AAA. A great OL team would win 97% of the time.

Ahhh, I guess the original question was vs. $70 MIL OL. I still say yes, but it would be much closer, the '27 Yanks would have the best shot.......goes downhill pretty quick from there...

Interesting theme idea.  As a commish, my concern would be filling the RL teams: after the first half-dozen or so, the pickings would start to get pretty thin.  I wouldn't want to be the 10th-12th owner taking a RL team!

Posted by pinotfan on 2/18/2011 2:17:00 PM (view original):
Interesting theme idea.  As a commish, my concern would be filling the RL teams: after the first half-dozen or so, the pickings would start to get pretty thin.  I wouldn't want to be the 10th-12th owner taking a RL team!

This is what I thought as well.  Then again, I remember Bilfert ran a league where everyone drafted RL teams.  I jumped in first and took the 27 Yankees.  I certainly didn't dominate as I expected: we won 92 and got knocked out in the first round.  So maybe there are 12 RL teams that could compete.

Maybe instead of making the RL teams exclusive you could allow 2 versions of each, and put them in opposite leagues?

Posted by pinotfan on 2/18/2011 2:17:00 PM (view original):
Interesting theme idea.  As a commish, my concern would be filling the RL teams: after the first half-dozen or so, the pickings would start to get pretty thin.  I wouldn't want to be the 10th-12th owner taking a RL team!

I was thinking about making it a 16 team league so there would only need to be 8 choices.   I would choose last so I would really only need 7.

I am most concerned about setting the "OL style" team salary "just right".   My initial thought was 70 but think 60 might be a better fit.

I did run that league and the results were surprising.  The '27 Yanks did not win, nor did the '61 Yanks.  I recall the Strike Season Expos being the season 1 winner but I could be wrong it was a really long time ago.  I thought I had kept the winners, but I could not find the document.  I have the list of the 100 "best" teams in the Sim by winning percentage with Salaries.  I admit that this could be from the previous pricing change and has not been updated in the past 3 or 4 years since I ran it.

Here are the first 50 from the list I have:

1885	Chicago White Stockings	87-25	88mil
1906	Chicago Cubs	116-36	87mil
1885	New York Giants	85-27	91mil
1902	Pittsburgh Pirates	103-36	87mil
1886	Chicago White Stockings	90-34	86mil
1909	Pittsburgh Pirates	110-42	84mil
1954	Cleveland Indians	111-43	85mil
2001	Seattle Mariners	116-46	85mil
1927	New York Yankees	110-44	96mil
1885	St. Louis Browns	79-33	78mil
1897	Boston Beaneaters	93-39	77mil
1907	Chicago Cubs	107-45	84mil
1931	Philadelphia Athletics	107-45	84mil
1887	St. Louis Browns	95-40	64mil
1939	New York Yankees	106-45	88mil
1896	Baltimore Orioles	90-39	87mil
1998	New York Yankees	115-50	85mil
1894	Baltimore Orioles	89-39	84mil
1932	New York Yankees	107-47	84mil
1995	Cleveland Indians	100-44	81mil
1929	Philadelphia Athletics	104-46	82mil
1904	New York Giants	106-47	81mil
1897	Baltimore Orioles	90-40	84mil
1912	Boston Red Sox	105-47	84mil
1891	Boston Reds	93-42	82mil
1942	St. Louis Cardinals	106-48	85mil
1905	New York Giants	105-48	84mil
1919	Cincinnati Reds	96-44	76mil
1898	Boston Beaneaters	102-47	76mil
1899	Brooklyn Superbas	101-47	67mil
1912	New York Giants	103-48	75mil
1953	Brooklyn Dodgers	105-49	86mil
1944	St. Louis Cardinals	105-49	89mil
1943	St. Louis Cardinals	105-49	87mil
1888	St. Louis Browns	92-43	94mil
1892	Boston Beaneaters	102-48	74mil
1910	Philadelphia Athletics	102-48	85mil
1909	Chicago Cubs	104-49	81mil
1889	Brooklyn Bridegrooms	93-44	69mil
1946	Boston Red Sox	104-50	81mil
1942	Brooklyn Dodgers	104-50	76mil
1910	Chicago Cubs	104-50	75mil
1969	Baltimore Orioles	109-53	88mil
1961	New York Yankees	109-53	82mil
1895	Baltimore Orioles	87-43	81mil
1915	Boston Red Sox	101-50	76mil
1911	Philadelphia Athletics	101-50	74mil
1954	New York Yankees	103-51	75mil
1942	New York Yankees	103-51	82mil
1970	Baltimore Orioles	108-54	81mil

I think $60m would be much more competitive across the board. I'd play at $60m (actually, I'd play at $70m too, but I like $60m better)... and would be willing to take either a real team or build my own. 

The difference between the two player pools is pretty amazing.  At a blended average of maybe 20 teams a season, the $80 MM OL draws from something like 2,520 team seasons (20x126) vs. one team season for the historically great team.  And, of course, that historically great team is included in the 2,520 team seasons.  A 2,520:1 ratio is pretty tough to overcome.  I vote for $60 MM OL v. the historically great teams.     

Posted by Bilfert on 2/18/2011 3:39:00 PM (view original):
I did run that league and the results were surprising.  The '27 Yanks did not win, nor did the '61 Yanks.  I recall the Strike Season Expos being the season 1 winner but I could be wrong it was a really long time ago.  I thought I had kept the winners, but I could not find the document.  I have the list of the 100 "best" teams in the Sim by winning percentage with Salaries.  I admit that this could be from the previous pricing change and has not been updated in the past 3 or 4 years since I ran it.

Here are the results of the one I was in (I think it finished in January 2008 -- 68 Tigers beat the 69 Orioles in the World Series):

MLB72161 FINAL STANDINGS
=====================
National League East
---------------------------
1927 New York Yankees (92-70) ... Owner: crazystengel (21609)
1902 Pittsburg Pirates (85-77) ... Owner: SophieGiants (1151)
2001 Seattle Mariners (75-87) ... Owner: cuppie1 (13363)
1906 Chicago Cubs (74-88) ... Owner: toysboys (7066)

National League Central
---------------------------
1998 NY Yankees (90-72) ... Owner: incognito42 (23839)
1939 New York Yankees (82-80) ... Owner: MMTDad (33916)
Philadelphia A's 1931 (80-82) ... Owner: alebenta (22502)
1953 Brooklyn Dodgers (79-83) ... Owner: leobuse (17290)

National League West
---------------------------
1969 Baltimore Orioles (97-65) ... Owner: magnum (-7798)
1944 St. Louis Cardinals (89-73) ... Owner: gelfost (11391)
1986 NY METS (74-88) ... Owner: BigKen35 (643)
1975 Cincinnati Reds (63-99) ... Owner: westolla (7247)

Patriot League East
---------------------------
1994 Montreal Expos (97-65) ... Owner: genemock91 (6627)
1970 Orioles (86-76) ... Owner: wedhead36 (-23944)
1998 Atlanta Braves (80-82) ... Owner: jeffmark (724)
1929 CHICAGO CUBBIES (69-93) ... Owner: fatboydad54 (-35639)

Patriot League Central
---------------------------
1968 Detroit Tigers (82-80) ... Owner: Calder (733)
1957 Yankees (77-85) ... Owner: a'sfan (132947)
Brooklyn Dodgers 1955 (70-92) ... Owner: billingsby (-2968)
1990 Oakland A's (59-103) ... Owner: BigKen35 (643)

Patriot League West
---------------------------
1948 Indians (89-73) ... Owner: WavelandGuy (11758)
1976 Cincinnati Reds (87-75) ... Owner: Bilfert (21047)
1931 NY Yankees (85-77) ... Owner: urband (33164)
1974 Los Angeles Dodgers (83-79) ... Owner: ETSTim (1381)