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crimsonblue
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Pinotfan, I never disputed the fact that the runner who advanced on the error (Wallach) and scored during the homerun is earned, that run I agree is earned. Once again it's the runner that scored during the error( Gallaraga) and the runner that reached base on the error (Bean) that are unearned. So just as the SIM says, of the 6 runs, 4 were earned. Uncleal's statement definitely agrees with mine. ..... How can you say that a run that scored during an error is earned?
5/9/2012 5:02 AM (edited)
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crimsonblue
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Contrarian, you're absolutely right the key phrase is the one that you have in italics AND you have hit on the key point about the offical scorer's judgement. YES, It is the offical scorer's task to  reconstruct the events in a linear fashion AND if the runner didn't actually score on the error (if the error simply loaded the bases) THEN yes after the subsequent homerun, 5 earned runs would have been given. BUT once the runner scores on the error, paragraph one of the rule says that the pitcher is ALWAYS given the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!!!(Galaraga could have been picked off or he could have been caught stealing if he had remained on 3rd. So once the run scores (not the fault of the pitcher), the pitcher is relieved of his responsibility. Sorry I used caps because I'm not as computer savvy. that's my interpretation but since it's a judgement call it's debatable. I went to this rule thinking that there would be 5 or 6 clear statements that would read as easy as the 10 commandments but it's about as lenghty as the Warren commision report.  It's a very involved rule and we don't get everything in the play by play.  Could be the SIM simply gave an offical scorer's judgement. Thanks for bringing facts to the discussion. 
5/9/2012 9:23 AM (edited)
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crimsonblue
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Posted by crazystengel on 5/9/2012 10:25:00 AM (view original):
I'd imagine "benefit of the doubt" might not apply in a case like the inning I posted, where the pitcher gave up a home run, which to me at least takes care of any doubt.

Now if, on the other hand, an error advanced a runner from 1st to 2nd base, and then the next batter hit a double that scored the runner on 2nd, that's a case where you could have doubt as to whether the runner would have scored without the aid of the misplay (assuming the pitcher gave up no subsequent hits/walks/hbp).
Possibly Stengel, In the Sim I agree but Real life is subject to real life rules and situations.  I think in the future, because the first part of rule10.16(d) is such a definite statement, I think they'll add a homerun clause.  Seems like a lot of 'addendums' have been added over the years. My guess is that after Abbott and Costello wrote "Who's on first" they wrote this rule. lol.
5/9/2012 12:05 PM (edited)
pruman1992
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Posted by crazystengel on 5/8/2012 5:10:00 PM (view original):
By the way, I can't figure out why Pedro was charged with only 4 earned runs in that inning, not 5.  Can anyone explain?

P.Martinez enters the game to pitch.  
  M.Grissom hits a flyball double to LF.
 
  T.Raines walks.
 
DP A.Galarraga draws the walk.
 
DP L.Walker is frozen on strike 3.
 
DP T.Wallach hits a bloop double to LCF. M.Grissom scores. T.Raines scores.
 
II M.Ramirez botches a routine flyball and R.Bean reaches on the error. A.Galarraga scores.
 
DP D.Garcia hits a flyball 3-run homer to LF.  
  L.Webster flies out to deep RF.  
  R.Johnson swings and misses for strike 3.

If R Bean scored on the HR, after reaching on the ERROR, his RUN is UNEARNED.

5/13/2012 10:02 PM
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