| Date |
User |
| 7/12/2010 2:33 AM |
inkdskn |
In the 07/12 am game for my team "Homoclinic Tangles," Sparky brought in my mopup guy (Joe P. Coleman) when I was leading 9-3.
I have the box "Use Mopup Only When Losing" checked.
My closer (Hooks Wiltse) came in at 100% after Coleman got bombed. The closer is set to be available in any inning--I double-checked before sending this ticket. "Use Closer in Save Situations Only" is NOT checked.
That is BS--it cost me the game. Please review the box & try to figure out why that happened. I see nothing in my settings that would cause it.
To review,
A) "Use Mopup Only When Losing" is checked.
B) Mopup was brought into game when leading 9-3, in the 8th inning.
When mopup was brought in,
A) My closer was 100%.
B) Closer's "Inn Avail" was set to "Any."
C) "Use Closer in Save Situations Only" was NOT checked.
D The "Relief" box in the advanced pitching settings was of course checked.
What's the deal here? |
| 7/15/2010 12:16 PM |
Customer Support |
To start the 8th, the score was 9-3 in a pitcher's park. This is considered a blowout, which means the perfect time to use a mopup man.
When he gave up his third run, the closer was brought in.
Had the score not been a blowout to begin the inning, your closer would have entered as all the settings were fine. But a 6-run lead in the 8th in a pitcher's park is the very definition of a blow out. Should the manager have yanked the mopup man sooner? Perhaps. But he had a call bullpen setting of 3 and two of the runners that reached were via error.
It was an ugly inning, no debating that.
Hope that makes sense. |
| 7/15/2010 5:13 PM |
inkdskn |
Thanks for looking at it, but it seems that the game is still fundamentally over-riding my settings.
There's a setting which asks, "Do you want the mop-up man to enter a game you're winning?"
My response, set via the setting, is a resounding NO.
Another setting asks, "Must it be a save situation for the closer to enter?"
My response, again via a setting, is a resounding NO.
...then Sparky says, "Hrm, we're winning. The closer is available, but it's a blowout. Despite the fact that the user has explicitly told me NOT to put the mop-up man in, and to instead put the closer in, I'm going to put the mop-up man in anyway. "
That's the part I have a problem with--the fact that I lost the game is irrelevant (crappy, but not really the issue).
Sparky completely ignored the settings I entered--if that's the case, why bother having them?
Your response included the phrase, "the score was 9-3 in a pitcher's park. This is considered a blowout, which means the perfect time to use a mopup man."
...but my settings explicitly state that I |
| 7/15/2010 5:14 PM |
inkdskn |
ugh somehow I sent my last response before I was done typing!!!
(I feel like an idiot).
Anyway--the last thing was going to say:
Your response included the phrase, "the score was 9-3 in a pitcher's park. This is considered a blowout, which means the perfect time to use a mopup man."
...but my settings explicitly state that I DO NOT want the mop-up man to enter in that situation.
So again, I'm left with one thought: Why bother having settings if they're completely ignored by the engine?? |
| 7/15/2010 5:20 PM |
inkdskn |
One last thought (sorry for 3 consecutive replies):
You mentioned that my mop-up dude's 'call bullpen' setting was at three, which is correct.
Why is it set at 3, though, instead of 4 or 5? Because my settings indicate that he can only enter the game if
A) I'm losing.
B) It's a blowout.
(or I guess if the rest of my 'pen is tired/used).
When A) & B) are met, though, I do want his setting at 3--I've already lost the game, so I don't care how many runs he gives up.
If I knew Sparky would put him in the game when my settings say not to, his setting would be on 5. I'm glad you brought it up, because now I've realized that I should put it on 5. |
| 7/16/2010 4:26 PM |
Customer Support |
Pitcher roles have meaning, or else we wouldn't have them. And the user can assign pitchers to roles.
So, you are right about the settings you have in place but you have also indicated which pitcher is a mopup pitcher.
You're asking for more control -- and we get your point. We are in the early stages of a redesigned game and the plan is to introduce some more advanced settings for users such as yourself. The update isn't until early 2011, but it's coming. |
| 7/19/2010 7:54 PM |
inkdskn |
I am not asking for more control.
I am asking for the settings provided by the game to be honored. If they're not being honored by the engine, they should be removed.
It might seem trivial, but my mop-up man's 'call bullpen' setting was 3 because of the way I had my settings, and by the assumption that the settings I entered were used by the engine, as described in an earlier reply.
If you guys provide the setting, it should be honored--when 'Use Mopup Only When Losing' is checked, the *only* time a mop-up man should enter the game with the lead is if every other pitcher is unavailable. Somebody has to pitch, right?
Conversely, if Sparky is going to decide when an appropriate time for a mop-up man to pitch is, and ignore my setting, the setting 'Use Mopup Only When Losing' should be removed. |
| 7/20/2010 9:50 AM |
Customer Support |
| You're missing the point about pitching roles. When a user assigns a pitcher to a role, that means something. It's our way of making sure traditional baseball logic is used. The other settings are used in conjunction with the role setting. |
| 7/20/2010 5:28 PM |
inkdskn |
I agree with your last statement, but I think you're missing the point about computer logic.
Every nest of IF...ELSE...END statements used to decide who should pitch in that situation would have used the closer. The reason for that is because that's what my settings pointed to. You admitted as much in an earlier reply.
Despite that, WIS' 'human logic' is intervening & deciding to put the mop-up man in.
It's possible that I'm simply misinterpreting what the 'Use Mopup Only When Losing' means, but if that's the case, I believe most users are also misinterpreting it. I feel like I'm given the choice for 'human logic' concerning when to use the mop-up man via the setting 'Use Mopup Only When Losing.'
I am assuming that that setting is only applicable when the game is a blowout--nobody expects the mop-up man to come in in the 7th inning of a 1-run game. The way I see it, that setting applies *only* in a blowout setting--and I explicitly told the engine not to use the mopup man when I'm winning.
Is that the wrong way of looking at it? If so, when *does* the setting apply? It doesn't seem like it would have meaning in any other scenario--setting the pitcher to 'mopup' means pitch
A) in a blowout, OR
B) when no one else is available.
Since I've seemingly defined the pitcher to pitch only in case A) or B) via setting him as a mopup man, when is the 'Use Mopup Only When Losing' even evaluated by the engine??
You guys admitted previously that my settings pointed to the closer, rather than the mopup man, but stated that it's OK because it "...means the perfect time to use a mopup man." However, as explained above, I am assuming that the '...only when losing' setting is only used in a mopup setting.
Could you please elaborate? Thanks; I hope I'm not coming across as an *******, but I really do not understand what the setting is used for. I feel like the programmers' 'human logic' is overriding my settings (which, as I understand it, should be used as logical tests in the code). |
| 7/20/2010 6:08 PM |
inkdskn |
Sorry for yet another 1000-line reply, but you guys really need to evaluate the information given on the site, and the logic used, for this issue.
Please carefully consider the following--I am not trying to give you a headache, but the logic used for this setting is flawed (if it's even used).
This is from the "Knowledge Base" part of the FAQ.
-------begin quote-----
Q. How does the mop up setting work for relief pitchers?
A.
The mop up setting is used to designate a pitcher be used in blowouts (either winning or losing). Blowout is determined by the deficit (or lead) and the inning, e.g. an 8 run deficit in the 2nd inning would not considered to be a blowout, but the same deficit in the 8th inning would be.
Mop up designated pitchers could possibly be used in non-mop up situations. They will always be used before pitchers marked as 'rest'. For example, if you have 5 relievers and 1 is marked as rest, 1 is marked as mop up, 1 is marked as long relief, 1 is marked as setup and the last as your closer, and your game went to extra innings, if your closer, setup, and long relief had already been used, then your mop up pitcher would see action. "
-------end quote----
Paragraph One states that mopup pitchers are to be used in blowouts. The game I am disputing the logic in was clearly a blowout.
Paragraph Two states that mopup will enter the game before a pitcher on "Rest," if all other pitchers have been used, blowout or not.
My mopup came in in a blowout, while I had pitchers at 100%. Paragraph Two does not immediately apply to the game I am questioning the logic in.
I am fully aware that the mopup man can pitch if all other pitchers are unavailable--I am not disputing that. That condition was not met in my game, I have no issue with it, so let's ignore it.
We are left with Paragraph One.
Again, examine Paragraph One: "The mop up setting is used to designate a pitcher be used in blowouts (either winning or losing)."
OK, when I set a man to MOPUP, they can enter the game when
A) It's a blowout, AND
B) I'm winning OR losing.
Now, there is an option called "Use Mopup Only When Losing."
Examine the setting--it refers to the use of a MOPUP pitcher. The FAQ states that setting a man to MOPUP designates him for use in blowouts (winning or losing).
Therefore, "Use Mopup Only When Losing" ***can only have meaning*** when it's a blowout (winning or losing)--in other words, when a mopup pitcher is eligible to pitch.
(Again, we're ignoring the 'no other pitcher available' part -- I had other pitchers available, so that criteria was not met).
So... this setting only applies when
A) It's a blowout, AND
B) I'm winning OR losing.
Now... when I check "Use Mopup Only When Losing," that should restrict mopup use to
A) It's a blowout, AND
B) I'm losing.
I have omitted the 'winning' part from the scenario via a setting that **only has meaning** in a blowout situation, as defined in the FAQ.
Now--if the setting is not used, and Sparky just decides to use MOPUP in a blowout (winning or losing), why do you have a setting called "Use Mopup Only When Losing??" Any setting which refers to the usage of MOPUP can only have meaning in the context for which MOPUP is eligible--in other words, in a blowout (winning or losing).
That is my point. The setting has no meaning whatsoever outside a blowout situation. The setting should be evaluated *in a blowout*--it is not used otherwise. |
| 7/21/2010 9:34 AM |
Customer Support |
We now see your point and why you're frustrated.
The Use Closer in Save Situations only setting did not have a complete definition in the knowledge base so we've added one this morning.
If the box is checked, the closer will only enter when he can earn a save. If it's not checked, he'll enter in both save situations and tie games.
He won't enter when the team has the lead but it's not a save situation, which is what occurred here. Should he be able to based on the settings the user has provided? We think so, and we'll be making this change the next time we do an engine update. We agree with you that the user should be able to use him in such a manner.
Thanks for the persistence. |
| 7/21/2010 3:44 PM |
inkdskn |
Thank you for reading & considering my numerous & long replies. It is hard to convey tone in writing (for me), so I hope I did not come across as an *******; that was never my intent.
I appreciate the fact that you guys are willing to read & think about what users write--I'm sure, at some point, you thought,"Jeez, who won't this guy shut up?"
Anyway--thanks again. |