Coors Effect ? Nah. Topic

Want to see an example of what effect Coors Field might have on pitchers' stats?

This is, I a admit, totally anecdotal and a sample size of 1 which is absurd, but still, this is interesting. 

Doing research for a progressive team I stumbled on Mike Hampton's ERA numbers. Here they are:

1995 Houston  3.35
1996 Houston 3.59
1997 Houston 3.83
1998 Houston 3.36
1999 Houston 2.90
2000 NY Mets 3.14

2001 Colorado 5.41
2002 Colorado 6.16

Each of these seasons he pitched between 170 and 240 IP

Maybe he just got old you say ? Good question. When I teach (mostly qualitative - alas if it were quantitative I would have won a championship here already !)  research methods I always teach that to find causality the MINIMUM criteria we must establish are:

1. (hypothesized) Cause must come before effect  - (this is not quantum physics, but social science, where quantum non-locality does not apply)  - in this case his shift to Coors came before his ERA ballooned, so so far we have validity.

2. there must be a plausible relationship between cause and effect (the example I always give is that the NY Yankees, since 1960 have only won World Series in years in which a Democrat has been in the White House (look it up, it holds). But there is no plausible relationship between the two facts, so it is coincidence. In Italy, by the way, everyone would say "A-Ha !  See it's all fixed by the politicians" since most soccer teams are owned by politically active wealthy people, the most prominent being only recently ex-prime minister Silvio Berlusconi owner of Milan. But since the late G.Steinbrenner was a well-known Republican (he got in trouble at one point for having made illegal donations to Nixon), it doesn't work like that here. But since there could be a relationship (common sense here) between baseball parks and pitchers' ERAs, without knowing that there is one, we have plausibility so we can continue.

3. We must exclude or account for other possible explanations - that is other potential causes of the effect we see - as in the question about whether Hampton was just over the hill (or the Rockies as it were). Since I teach social sciences and not science sciences, there is no such thing as a "proof" - a mathematical term. Only "what is the best explanation with the weight of the evidence on its side among the plausible contending explanations."  Was he over the hill? 

2003 Atlanta 3.84
2004 Atlanta 4.28  - here we might find that in a year 0.44 - all other things being equal, was the aging effect, not 2.00+ as in when he pitched in Coors

After that he never gets close to 170 IP again, but in 2005 with 70 IP at Atlanta his ERA was 2005. Doesn't prove it was Coors, but it is some incriminating evidence if I have ever seen any - more than 2 full points on the ERA compared with other parks. 

By the way, if you have never been there, Coors field is lovely - a very relaxing park to watch baseball in. My sister lives in Denver so I have been there many times. Wouldn't want to pitch there though. Coors beer on the other hand is horrible. Jimmy the Red, the legendary owner of the great Greenwich Village (NY) bar Googies, once was offered a free sample keg of Coors, which he didn't have on tap, and he rolled it out onto West 3rd street, took an ax to it and dumped beer all over the sidewalk. 


So ends our Research Methods lesson for today.  That'll be $45,000. 

6/7/2012 8:36 AM (edited)
Your check's in the mail - drawn on the National Bank of Greece.
6/7/2012 12:04 PM

"1. (hypothesized) Cause must come before effect  - (this is not quantum physics, but social science, where quantum non-locality does not apply)  - in this case his shift to Coors came before his ERA ballooned, so so far we have validity."

I know I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm betting this is the first mention of quantum non-locality in the baseball forums since .... well, ever.

6/7/2012 4:52 PM
That came up in 03 when we discussed left handed second basemen. No wait, I am thinking about the term "aas hat". I confuse those two all the time.
6/7/2012 5:36 PM
Actually quantum physics is what is missing here. The Cartesians - also known as the stat crowd keep telling others to forget about the impressions they still have of ball players who were really good when they played.

You only THOUGHT Willie Mays was good - it was your mind playing tricks on you as Descartes suggested - which is why he didn't trust anything that could not be logically verified which eventually led to ...WIS. 

But Heisenberg (played second base for the Cubs, look it up) came up with the uncertainty principle: there is no experiment in which the experimenter is not a part of the experiment itself, that is the observer is part of the observed and changes the observed by observing it. 

That being the case, impressions go two ways - this is part of the statistically verifiable if I am not mistaken, home field advantage. 

Further, since there is no past nor present, cause can't be said to come before effect since there is no before or after (Emily Dickinson, as so often, was on to this long before "life consists of an infinity of nows" she wrote). So it is not quite true that "Addie Joss is not REALLY pitching to Reggie Jackson" - Addie Joss is ALWAYS PITCHING to Reggie Jackson and yet there is no always, only now, as in mythological stories. 


Linearity is so 20th century. And statistics are so Newtonian, in fact Newton INVENTED them when he came up with the calculus in the 1660s. 

But alas, in the social sciences we have none of this cool stuff. It is still cause-effect, cause-effect. So that is how I teach it.

 But here in the matrix we interact with the players we choose and breathe life into them even as the cave painters of Liscaux did to their animal spirit paintings so long ago. 
6/7/2012 7:12 PM
"You only THOUGHT Willie Mays was good - it was your mind playing tricks on you as Descartes suggested - which is why he didn't trust anything that could not be logically verified which eventually led to ...WIS."

And was why Voltaire thought Descartes was a nincompoop compared to Newton, who, by the way, took all the fun out of home runs by inventing bleachers and walls and warning tracks. You could look it up.

6/7/2012 7:52 PM
Can't fool me. If you're in social sciences your also heavily into statistics. And statistics, is like, most of sabermetrics. Gutsy of you to roll with just two variables: E.R.A. and Park Effects. And a sample size of 1, ooh boy, that's a sin against math. Looking at the real mathy numbers we find two oddities with Rockie-Hampton

1) Hampton had a career K/9 of 5.50. In 2001 Hampton sported a 5.41 K/9 and then this huge drop to 3.73 in 2002. It returned to around carrer average thereafter. No idea what might have caused that.

2) Fly balls at Coors aren't like other fly balls. Starting in '95, Hampton's HR/9 rate by year was 0.78, 0.67, 0.65, 0.77, 0.45, 0.41, 1.37, 1.21, 0.66, 0.78, 0.65. I think I can spot the two Coors years.
6/7/2012 7:54 PM
"But Heisenberg (played second base for the Cubs, look it up) came up with the uncertainty principle: there is no experiment in which the experimenter is not a part of the experiment itself, that is the observer is part of the observed and changes the observed by observing it."

A Highway Patrolman pulls Heisenberg over on the interstate.  Cop:  "Mr. Heisenberg, do you know how fast you were going?"  Heisenberg: "No, but I know exactly where I am."
6/7/2012 9:40 PM
Great  pinotfan |
6/8/2012 8:41 AM
Posted by pinotfan on 6/7/2012 9:40:00 PM (view original):
"But Heisenberg (played second base for the Cubs, look it up) came up with the uncertainty principle: there is no experiment in which the experimenter is not a part of the experiment itself, that is the observer is part of the observed and changes the observed by observing it."

A Highway Patrolman pulls Heisenberg over on the interstate.  Cop:  "Mr. Heisenberg, do you know how fast you were going?"  Heisenberg: "No, but I know exactly where I am."
This is hilarious.
6/8/2012 4:24 PM
Posted by italyprof on 6/7/2012 8:36:00 AM (view original):
Want to see an example of what effect Coors Field might have on pitchers' stats?

This is, I a admit, totally anecdotal and a sample size of 1 which is absurd, but still, this is interesting. 

Doing research for a progressive team I stumbled on Mike Hampton's ERA numbers. Here they are:

1995 Houston  3.35
1996 Houston 3.59
1997 Houston 3.83
1998 Houston 3.36
1999 Houston 2.90
2000 NY Mets 3.14

2001 Colorado 5.41
2002 Colorado 6.16

Each of these seasons he pitched between 170 and 240 IP

Maybe he just got old you say ? Good question. When I teach (mostly qualitative - alas if it were quantitative I would have won a championship here already !)  research methods I always teach that to find causality the MINIMUM criteria we must establish are:

1. (hypothesized) Cause must come before effect  - (this is not quantum physics, but social science, where quantum non-locality does not apply)  - in this case his shift to Coors came before his ERA ballooned, so so far we have validity.

2. there must be a plausible relationship between cause and effect (the example I always give is that the NY Yankees, since 1960 have only won World Series in years in which a Democrat has been in the White House (look it up, it holds). But there is no plausible relationship between the two facts, so it is coincidence. In Italy, by the way, everyone would say "A-Ha !  See it's all fixed by the politicians" since most soccer teams are owned by politically active wealthy people, the most prominent being only recently ex-prime minister Silvio Berlusconi owner of Milan. But since the late G.Steinbrenner was a well-known Republican (he got in trouble at one point for having made illegal donations to Nixon), it doesn't work like that here. But since there could be a relationship (common sense here) between baseball parks and pitchers' ERAs, without knowing that there is one, we have plausibility so we can continue.

3. We must exclude or account for other possible explanations - that is other potential causes of the effect we see - as in the question about whether Hampton was just over the hill (or the Rockies as it were). Since I teach social sciences and not science sciences, there is no such thing as a "proof" - a mathematical term. Only "what is the best explanation with the weight of the evidence on its side among the plausible contending explanations."  Was he over the hill? 

2003 Atlanta 3.84
2004 Atlanta 4.28  - here we might find that in a year 0.44 - all other things being equal, was the aging effect, not 2.00+ as in when he pitched in Coors

After that he never gets close to 170 IP again, but in 2005 with 70 IP at Atlanta his ERA was 2005. Doesn't prove it was Coors, but it is some incriminating evidence if I have ever seen any - more than 2 full points on the ERA compared with other parks. 

By the way, if you have never been there, Coors field is lovely - a very relaxing park to watch baseball in. My sister lives in Denver so I have been there many times. Wouldn't want to pitch there though. Coors beer on the other hand is horrible. Jimmy the Red, the legendary owner of the great Greenwich Village (NY) bar Googies, once was offered a free sample keg of Coors, which he didn't have on tap, and he rolled it out onto West 3rd street, took an ax to it and dumped beer all over the sidewalk. 


So ends our Research Methods lesson for today.  That'll be $45,000. 

During his two Coors years, Hampton hit a combined .315  (45/143) with 29 runs, 4 dbls, 10 homers, 21 RBIs and a .552 slugging percent, and won two Silver Sluggers.  Didn't appear to be getting old at the plate...
6/8/2012 6:39 PM
Posted by markeking on 6/7/2012 4:52:00 PM (view original):

"1. (hypothesized) Cause must come before effect  - (this is not quantum physics, but social science, where quantum non-locality does not apply)  - in this case his shift to Coors came before his ERA ballooned, so so far we have validity."

I know I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm betting this is the first mention of quantum non-locality in the baseball forums since .... well, ever.

what about "science sciences"?

6/8/2012 6:42 PM
Wow. I missed that teaparty, thanks. Does kind of seal the deal doesn't it? That is a good season for some position players ! 
6/8/2012 6:42 PM
Coors Effect ? Nah. Topic

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