I pulled a D2 kid down with a few phone calls, HVs, and a schollie, but the way in which it happened was very strange.  Just wondering if anyone else has seen this.  I don't remember the exact distance from my school, but I'm certain he was 70 miles or less.

Cycle 1: I called him and got the backup message.  I hadn't head from him again and did nothing until the cycle after signings.  

After cycle 1 of signings, I went to pull him down.  I never got a message saying he dropped and he still showed on my D2 list.  I sent 10 STs and a schollie.  After some deliberation I changed my mind and cancelled the 10 STs, but left the scholarship offer.  The next cycle he contacted me saying he doesn't see himself playing for TCNJ next season.  I put no effort towards him that cycle.  Next cycle I get a message saying he'll keep me in mind in case his other options don't pan out.  I put no effort towards him again.  Next cycle I get a message that says 'the offer is great, but I don't know enough to say yes or no.'  To me, this meant he didn't have to be pulled down anymore.  Still no message that he dropped, and he still showed up on my D2 list.

Next cycle I send a HV and phone call.  He's still on the fence.  Next cycle I send a 2nd home visit and 5 phone calls, and he's considering me.  One or 2 cycles later, he signed.  The whole time he was on my D2 list (I checked after every cycle).  In total, I pulled him down for 7 phone calls, 2 HVs, and a schollie.

I'm sure distance factored into how this played out.  So I'm wondering if anyone else has ever seen this, or was I the beneficiary of a glitch?

That sort of happened with me with my beloit team with Mark Alanis a center i got. He was a low d2 center like 440 if i remember correctly i put like a feeler out to him and schollie and he brushed me off then i got message after few cycles he was considering me and did a home visit and like 2 calls cause i was strapped for cash and he signed like a cycle later.

its not really a glitch. let me start by correcting you on one thing - you CANNOT send HVs or CVs to pulldowns (well, you can, but its 0.0000000000% chance they will accept). so, you did not pull this player down.

this is a within 70 mile phenomenon. like a player you have already pulled down, a player within 70 miles can be eligible for direct recruiting WITHOUT showing in your divisional search. this can actually happen at the start of recruiting, as well as at any point during recruiting. within 70 miles is supposed to be the only place this phenomenon exists.

so, what happened is this. you sent him a scholarship offer. his response indicates he was still needing to be pulled down. the next cycle, by sheer luck, is when he dropped to you - evidenced by the new scholarship message. at this point, he was eligible for your effort like any d3 player. your 2 HVs were simply the effort required to get him to consider you.

hope that helps!

Posted by gillispie2 on 10/22/2012 12:58:00 PM (view original):
its not really a glitch. let me start by correcting you on one thing - you CANNOT send HVs or CVs to pulldowns (well, you can, but its 0.0000000000% chance they will accept). so, you did not pull this player down.

this is a within 70 mile phenomenon. like a player you have already pulled down, a player within 70 miles can be eligible for direct recruiting WITHOUT showing in your divisional search. this can actually happen at the start of recruiting, as well as at any point during recruiting. within 70 miles is supposed to be the only place this phenomenon exists.

so, what happened is this. you sent him a scholarship offer. his response indicates he was still needing to be pulled down. the next cycle, by sheer luck, is when he dropped to you - evidenced by the new scholarship message. at this point, he was eligible for your effort like any d3 player. your 2 HVs were simply the effort required to get him to consider you.

hope that helps!

Ok, this makes sense.  I've seen the 70-mile phenomenon work before.  What I wasn't sure of is whether a player could drop to you while still showing up in your D2 search.  It was the first time I'd seen a dropdown work this way, so I figured I'd ask.  Thanks!

Like many other mileage (and state) related phenomenons in this game, I don't think the 70 mile thing is completely fair (particularly to those schools in AK, HI, and PR, but also to others which are 'out of the way' from other things for the most part).

But it is what it is.

Like Billy said, it happens that a guy within 70 miles shows up on a higher level search, but can actually be recruited normally. It's more common to occur from the beginning of recruiting than in the scenario you are describing, but it is part of the game.

Most of us understand the under 70 mile advantage, but the weird thing to me is that the kid apparently dropped to him but was still on his D2 list.  I would have assumed that even though he's within 70 miles if he dropped to him he'd be on his D3 list.

He never "dropped." This coach was simply able to recruit him straight up because he's in his 70 mile zone. Should the player have "dropped" he would have been open to recruiting by other coaches at his level. I like it this way because it's clear I'm one of the few D3/D2 coaches at my level that is able to recruit this player straight up. 

but in cycle 1 the kid said he was a backup option

OP, care to post the phone call message?

Posted by darnoc29099 on 10/22/2012 1:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie2 on 10/22/2012 12:58:00 PM (view original):
its not really a glitch. let me start by correcting you on one thing - you CANNOT send HVs or CVs to pulldowns (well, you can, but its 0.0000000000% chance they will accept). so, you did not pull this player down.

this is a within 70 mile phenomenon. like a player you have already pulled down, a player within 70 miles can be eligible for direct recruiting WITHOUT showing in your divisional search. this can actually happen at the start of recruiting, as well as at any point during recruiting. within 70 miles is supposed to be the only place this phenomenon exists.

so, what happened is this. you sent him a scholarship offer. his response indicates he was still needing to be pulled down. the next cycle, by sheer luck, is when he dropped to you - evidenced by the new scholarship message. at this point, he was eligible for your effort like any d3 player. your 2 HVs were simply the effort required to get him to consider you.

hope that helps!

Ok, this makes sense.  I've seen the 70-mile phenomenon work before.  What I wasn't sure of is whether a player could drop to you while still showing up in your D2 search.  It was the first time I'd seen a dropdown work this way, so I figured I'd ask.  Thanks!

it ONLY works that way within 70 miles.

i think some of the subsequent posters and i may be confusing terminology (could be on my end too). basically, i say a player has dropped to you when you can recruit them. when you successfully pull them down, they've dropped to you, in my book. but you could use dropdown to mean, showing in the lower division.

whatever you call it, players in the upper division can be immediately recruitable (which i call having dropped) in exactly 2 non bugged out cases:
1) you pull them down
2) they are within 70 miles

those 70 mile players will be open to your efforts before they will actually make the move to the lower divisional pool, if it ever happens.

and i think by the OPs statement of the scholarship message, that is proof enough he was a backup - so tianyi, i dont know what you are expecting - but i can pretty much guarantee if he posts, its a backup phone message too. scholarship messages CANT be used as an absolute if a player will drop, because some will not respond/reject the scholarship who ARE actually recruitable. but if you do get a message, then you can distinguish unambiguously between a backup and currently recruitable player.

Posted by jdno on 10/23/2012 8:58:00 AM (view original):
Most of us understand the under 70 mile advantage, but the weird thing to me is that the kid apparently dropped to him but was still on his D2 list.  I would have assumed that even though he's within 70 miles if he dropped to him he'd be on his D3 list.

if by dropped, you mean, instantly recruitable - yes - and that can happen just like with pulldowns. so its the assumption that even though hes within 70 miles, hes show on d3 list, thats incorrect. think about this - some 70 miles players a division up, you can recruit straight away (the OPs example is not one of them). so why would he have to drop to d3 to be recruitable later?

I'm just surprised that the player "dropped down" and still showed up on the D2 search, not on the D3 search. All of the players that gave me the initial backup message, and were later open to HV/CV have all showed up on my d3 search.

Posted by tianyi7886 on 10/23/2012 3:05:00 PM (view original):
I'm just surprised that the player "dropped down" and still showed up on the D2 search, not on the D3 search. All of the players that gave me the initial backup message, and were later open to HV/CV have all showed up on my d3 search.

I've definitely had it go the other way before.  I mean I don't typically check this anymore, so I can't say how frequently it happens, but I'm positive I've had pulldowns as a D3 considering me while still on my D2 search.

And my impression (again I don't really check normally) is that these < 70 mile players who happen to be immediately recruitable are usually still on your D2 search when you can start recruiting them.  They probably move down to the D3 search at some point, though.

On the 70 miles thing, does it only work for select players within 70 miles who are up a division from you, or is it every player within 70 miles will automatically be more open to your efforts?